# Did Nina De Chiffre sexually assault Salvatore Piccione? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529 "2013-12-17T04:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/1 "2013-12-17T04:26:21Z")
Here’s the link. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/kiss-and-yell-italian-protester-charged-with-sexual-assault-after-kissing-riot-police-officer-9007265.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/kiss-and-yell-italian-protester-charged-with-sexual-assault-after-kissing-riot-police-officer-9007265.html) For those who don’t want to read through the whole link, an Italian student protester went up to a riot policeman and kissed him on his mask and also, allegedly licked her fingers and then put them on his mouth. Now yes, that’s not behavior I’d say is fine and yeah I’ll also concede this would probably have been viewed differently if this was a male protestor and a female police officer, but isn’t this just a little ridiculous that she’s being charged with engaging in “sexual violence” and isn’t this a bit insulting to people who’ve actually been victims of sexual violence? ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/2 "2013-12-17T04:39:16Z")
Sexual assault often includes pretty much anything that could be considered for sexual gratification. Not sure how it is in Italy, but in many states - there are different degrees. You might have four different categories - from pinching someone’s but to putting your something in their something. Do you not think this should be in its own category? If not sexual - what do you call it? I think the name can unfairly tarnish people - as does many offenses that can get you labeled as a sexual predator or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/3 "2013-12-17T04:39:23Z")
Not knowing anything about Italian law, my guess is that her actions would be considered their equivalent of a minor misdemeanor version of sexual assault. US states have various levels of sexual assault charges, from serious felonies for violent rape down to minor misdemeanors for forced kiss/bottom-grabbing/etc. As someone who’s been sexually assaulted, and I can’t speak for everyone of course, but I agree that it does meet the more ‘mild’ definition of sexual assault. Also, going so far as to lick her finger and stick it in his mouth is rather icky, and worse than just smooching the helmet visor. I suspect they’re just making an example of her. It would look terrible if more women were interfering with police by grabbing and kissing them, and the police had to try to pull them off to do something urgent or simply continue to keep the peace; I can imagine the headlines of “oh, look at these horrible police beating women for kissing them!” when they were simply trying to do their job and protestors had found creative ways to resist. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/4 "2013-12-17T10:26:13Z")
Rape apologist. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/5 "2013-12-17T10:48:00Z")
I’m just loving the names. They’re like something out of Puccini. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/6 "2013-12-17T11:10:25Z")
Had this been in America, I’d have just rolled my eyes. But this is Italy, folks. The country where a discreet nooner between consenting adults is pratically a national right. Have the lawyers finally managed to destroy the last bastion of la dolce vita? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/7 "2013-12-17T20:47:31Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Rape apologist. Huh? What and who are you referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/8 "2013-12-17T20:59:58Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Huh? > > What and who are you referring to. Dude’s an MRA who’s trying to parody feminists / point out “hypocricy” / etc. He’s best to be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/9 "2013-12-17T21:07:45Z")
**The Moderator Clears His Throat** > [@blindboyard](#): > > Rape apologist. If this is a joke or some sort of meta thing it’s bad. If it’s an insult it’s not permitted in Great Debates. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/10 "2013-12-17T21:43:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Now yes, that’s not behavior I’d say is fine and yeah I’ll also concede this would probably have been viewed differently if this was a male protestor and a female police officer, but isn’t this just a little ridiculous that she’s being charged with engaging in “sexual violence” and isn’t this a bit insulting to people who’ve actually been victims of sexual violence? There are different degrees of sexual assault just as there are different degrees of physical assault, would charging someone with common assault for a relevant incident insult someone who has been a victim of grievious bodily harm in a different incident? And what difference does it make that the officer was male and the alleged offender female? Males don’t want strange people touching them either. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/11 "2013-12-17T22:11:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > (snip) For those who don’t want to read through the whole link, an Italian student protester went up to a riot policeman and kissed him on his mask and also, allegedly licked her fingers and then put them on his mouth. > > Now yes, that’s not behavior I’d say is fine and yeah I’ll also concede **this would probably have been viewed differently if this was a male protestor and a female police officer** , but isn’t this just a little ridiculous that she’s being charged with engaging in “sexual violence” and isn’t this a bit insulting to people who’ve actually been victims of sexual violence? (bolding mine) Equal standards should apply regardless of who is the aggressor and who the victim. If it is inappropriate for a man to do, it is inappropriate for a woman to do. Not to justify it, but this might have been part of the point that **blindboyard** was ineffectually trying to make. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/12 "2013-12-17T23:11:57Z")
“allegedly licked her fingers and then put them on his mouth” - that certainly sounds like assault if not sexual assault. She shouldn’t be sticking her syphilitic, herpes, HIV infected (can anyone say she doesn’t have any social diseases?) fingers in anyone’s anything. At least, not without getting permission first. What does Italian statute say? Is forcing your spit+ into someone’s unwilling mouth cause for an arrest? Apparently it does. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/13 "2013-12-17T23:28:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What does Italian statute say? Is forcing your spit+ into someone’s unwilling mouth cause for an arrest? Apparently it does. And I hadn’t even thought of this, she (allegedly, essentially) spit on a cop and ensured it got into his mucous membranes. I suspect that counts as (minor) physical assault in many places. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/14 "2013-12-18T06:52:39Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Dude’s an MRA who’s trying to parody feminists / point out “hypocricy” / etc. He’s best to be ignored. Ah, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/15 "2013-12-18T09:30:00Z")
IMO, it’s simple assault (if you must) but not sexual assault. Sexual _harassment_, I could maybe see, but sexual \*assault \*(or “sexual _violence_”) not so much. The intent is to humiliate and ridicule the tool of the state, not get her jollies. It was more in line with sticking a flower in a NG’s gun than a Serbian rape camp, is what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/16 "2013-12-18T09:46:46Z")
Wait a minute, how could she “lick her fingers and put them on his mouth” if he had a riot mask on ? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/17 "2013-12-18T10:20:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > IMO, it’s simple assault (if you must) but not sexual assault. Sexual _harassment_, I could maybe see, but sexual \*assault \*(or “sexual _violence_”) not so much. The intent is to humiliate and ridicule the tool of the state, not get her jollies. It was more in line with sticking a flower in a NG’s gun than a Serbian rape camp, is what I’m saying. It may be a translation issue, however did she stick her fingers _on_ his mouth or _in_ his mouth, that could be taken as two different levels of assault. Again there are different levels of assault, I don’t think anyone is comparing it to rape. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait a minute, how could she “lick her fingers and put them on his mouth” if he had a riot mask on ? :dubious: There’s a picture in the original post, she got her fingers under his mask. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/18 "2013-12-18T11:23:41Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect they’re just making an example of her. It would look terrible if more women were interfering with police by grabbing and kissing them, and the police had to try to pull them off to do something urgent or simply continue to keep the peace; I can imagine the headlines of “oh, look at these horrible police beating women for kissing them!” when they were simply trying to do their job and protestors had found creative ways to resist. This. The police probably needs to be attacked before they can respond, so they have to legally define the more creative but physical approaches as violence to justify responding to it with some form of force. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/19 "2013-12-18T15:44:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait a minute, how could she “lick her fingers and put them on his mouth” if he had a riot mask on ? :dubious: Riot masks are just frontal shields, they don’t have a neck piece. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/20 "2013-12-18T15:49:10Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Not knowing anything about Italian law, my guess is that her actions would be considered their equivalent of a minor misdemeanor version of sexual assault. US states have various levels of sexual assault charges, from serious felonies for violent rape down to minor misdemeanors for forced kiss/bottom-grabbing/etc. What states are you referring to? Criminal sexual contact generally comes in two flavors at most, such as sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault, and three at most (in some jurisdictions “rape” still solely refers to penile penetration.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529.md?page=2)