# Did Nina De Chiffre sexually assault Salvatore Piccione? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529 "2013-12-17T04:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/21 "2013-12-18T16:28:47Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > This. The police probably needs to be attacked before they can respond, so they have to legally define the more creative but physical approaches as violence to justify responding to it with some form of force. The police were ordered not to respond to any provocation from the protestors. De Chiffre was aware of this order and knowing that Piccione was essentially helpless she initiated her attack. Piccione would have been justified in using force to stop De Schiffre so far as I’m concerned. (A shove or something, I’m not saying he should have just started out cracking her head open with a baton.) Nobody should be able to do what De Chiffre did to another person, cop or no, and expect to walk away. It’s not the most serious of crimes and I’d rather be kissed by De Chiffre than have her throw a brick at my head but she was in the wrong. I’ve found that support for De Chiffre tends to come from three areas. #1. Fuck 'da police: The pigs had it coming. #2. The plight of women: A woman forcibly kissing a man isn’t the same as a man forcibly kissing a woman. #3. Forcibly kissing someone isn’t sexual assault: I’m actually sympathetic to this argument but there are people who consider it to be sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/22 "2013-12-18T17:13:13Z")
I don’t know how the law is written, and I’m interested in seeing that. I have an idea on how I think the law _should_ be written, and I’m perfectly fine with writing it in a way that construes this as a sexual assault. A minor one compared to something like rape, of course, more akin to grabbing someone’s butt or breasts, but sexual assault nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/23 "2013-12-18T20:32:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What states are you referring to? Criminal sexual contact generally comes in two flavors at most, such as sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault, and three at most (in some jurisdictions “rape” still solely refers to penile penetration.) I’m most familiar with the laws in Wisconsin (my birth state, where I spent 21 years), [which has 4 degrees](http://www.wcasa.org/pages/Resources-Info_Sheets-SA-Statutory-Language.php). 4th degree is a misdemeanor, the others are felonies. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/24 "2013-12-19T13:37:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Riot masks are just frontal shields, they don’t have a neck piece. Yes, but I (incorrectly, as it turns out) assumed that Italian riot cops, like ours, would typically include a balaclava in their head-busting paraphernalia. But not a baklava, that would be weird. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/25 "2013-12-19T14:20:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes, but I (incorrectly, as it turns out) assumed that Italian riot cops, like ours, would typically include a balaclava in their head-busting paraphernalia. > But not a baklava, that would be weird. Probably depends on the temperature and level of threat, if you’re going to be standing around for a long time in warm weather and a low general threat it may be optional. Besides an officer looks a lot less threatening sans balaclava and that may be part of the reason they aren’t wearing them in that photo. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/26 "2013-12-27T09:48:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Had this been in America, I’d have just rolled my eyes. But this is Italy, folks. The country where a discreet nooner between consenting adults is pratically a national right. Have the lawyers finally managed to destroy the last bastion of la dolce vita? I think that the operative word is ‘consenting’. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529/27 "2013-12-30T07:28:18Z")
The problem I have with kissing being sexual assault is that this is Italy, where non-sexual kissing is a lot more common. (at least, more common than in the states). I have no problem calling what she did assault, but I’m just not sure it’s inherently sexual. Though it definitely could be–but that’s where intent would matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nina-de-chiffre-sexually-assault-salvatore-piccione/676529.md?page=1)