# Did North American indigenous people have cats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996 "2018-02-17T15:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/1 "2018-02-17T15:47:16Z")
They had dogs, but I’m wondering if any cats came across the Bering land bridge with the ancestors of the indigenous inhabitants? Or did the cats, being sensible little critters, say “too cold !” and not cross over with them? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/2 "2018-02-17T15:48:18Z")
Arggh! “Cats” not “casts”! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/3 "2018-02-17T15:52:08Z")
[2008 article from USA Today](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/genetics/2008-06-09-science-of-cats_N.htm), itself referencing a National geographic documentary (link to it in the USA Today article does not work). According to the article, they arrived with the Pilgrims. I haven’t read enough to see if the geneticist who did the study included cats from the SW. PS: next time just report it, mods fix titles and you don’t even need to put them on retainer. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/4 "2018-02-17T15:58:38Z")
Cats tamed later than dogs. The Land Bridge was gone about 11000 years ago but the earliest dates for domesticate cats is 9,500 years ago and in the Egypt area. Dogs were at least 14,000 and maybe as far back as 20000 or even 30,000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/5 "2018-02-17T15:59:02Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Arggh! “Cats” not “casts”! Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/6 "2018-02-17T16:00:26Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Fixed. Bob Barker thanks you. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/7 "2018-02-17T16:02:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Bob Barker thanks you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/8 "2018-02-17T16:31:47Z")
I’ve heard that cats are not mentioned in the Bible either. If they were in Egypt, when do they historically show up in other parts of the Middle East? Did Jesus ever pet a kitten? (sorry if this is a hijack) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/9 "2018-02-17T17:06:39Z")
You want to start a debate at a gathering of people who get serious about this stuff (say at Meadowcroft or such) just ask this question. In terms of domestic cats as we think of them; no — no bones or any other evidence found. But were there wild animals/cats that got domesticated more on an individual basis? The really starts the fight going for high gear. > **[Native Americans Might Have Domesticated Bobcats 2,000 Years Ago](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/65977/native-americans-might-have-domesticated-bobcats-2000-years-ago)** > > A bobkitten was found buried wearing a necklace in an ancient funeral mound in Illinois. Was that some evidence of domestication or did some kid find it dead and some parent go through the rituals to demonstrate them to the child and make the child feel better? I spent a couple hours, and a few beers, out in Indiana last summer arguing the same point. It doesn’t break out into the out-right fights the “Clovis First or Not” thing does but folks have some strong feelings on the subject since some wolves and coyotes were pretty clearly used domestically --------- its a tough call to make. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/10 "2018-02-17T17:19:32Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > They had dogs, but I’m wondering if any cats came across the Bering land bridge with the ancestors of the indigenous inhabitants? > > Or did the cats, being sensible little critters, say “too cold !” and not cross over with them? It is believed that the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated across the Bering Land Bridge between 15,000 and 20,0000 years ago. However, dogs apparently arrived in the Americas [somewhat later,](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201501/the-first-dogs-in-the-americas) around 10,000 years ago, either spreading from group to group or with a new group of migrants. The groups that migrated across the Bering Strait were hunter-gatherers, and dogs were useful to them for hunting. Cats were domesticated much later than dogs, perhaps 9,000-10,000 years ago in the Middle East. Their domestication (actually self-domestication) is associated with development of agriculture, as they came to live in villages in order to prey on the rodents that lived on stored grain and human refuse. Cats would have been of little use to the hunter-gatherers who lived in Siberia and Alaska and so did not spread like dogs did. There is no evidence that the indigenous peoples of the Americas made any attempt to domesticate any of the small cats of the New World. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/11 "2018-02-17T18:52:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It is believed that the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated across the Bering Land Bridge between 15,000 and 20,0000 years ago. However, dogs apparently arrived in the Americas [somewhat later,](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201501/the-first-dogs-in-the-americas) around 10,000 years ago, either spreading from group to group or with a new group of migrants. The groups that migrated across the Bering Strait were hunter-gatherers, and dogs were useful to them for hunting. It also depends on whether or not you consider the Eskimo to be “indigenous”. They came later-- about 5k years ago. Not that I think the early Eskimo people had any cats, but they are often considered to be indigenous along with, although separate from, Amerindians. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/12 "2018-02-17T18:53:56Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > I’ve heard that cats are not mentioned in the Bible either. If they were in Egypt, when do they historically show up in other parts of the Middle East? Did Jesus ever pet a kitten? (sorry if this is a hijack) The Ancient Greeks didn’t have cats, instead using weasels to protect grain storage areas. Ancient Egyptians (I don’t know how ancient, i.e. exactly which kingdom or dynasty) taught them cats are better – cats are less likely to attack the incapacitated, elderly or children. Once can surmise that the vermin technology called “cats” had not been imported into early Middle East. Or maybe it had, and wasn’t put into the Bible because it wasn’t seen as important, or maybe Bible authors had selective ignoring of advancements that aren’t “Chosen People” innovations i.e. God’s innovations™. The entire Exodus narrative has been disputed elsewhere and even here on the SDMB. I’d suspect cats were well introduced by Roman times, if not much sooner. Practical, if not bible narrative worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/13 "2018-02-17T19:01:08Z")
On topic, there is some evidence that there were two or more individual dog domestication. [Domestication of the dog - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog#Place_of_divergence) Or just one extremely wide group of domestication events. Some species of cat were able to cross the Bering land bridge, but not the domesticated cat precursor. [Felidae - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae#Evolution) At any rate, although we have both in our houses now, their prehistory, as far as we’re able to determine, is so different, that we can’t be surprised the North American population didn’t have domesticated cats. Hrm. How did they keep their grain safe? ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/14 "2018-02-17T19:04:50Z")
Here’s a scholarly article dealing with contemporary grain loss during storage in developing countries. [Reducing Postharvest Losses during Storage of Grain Crops to Strengthen Food Security in Developing Countries - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296677/) Nothing in the article about cats. Hrm. Maybe they’re not that important for vermin control? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/15 "2018-02-17T19:09:05Z")
The lack of cats in the Bible might just be because they don’t interact with humans much. Dogs do: They go hunting with us, or they guard our dwellings and bark when something needs our attention, or if they’re feral, they sometimes attack us, and so on. But while cats and humans do have a mutualistic relationship, it mostly consists of us doing our thing and the cats doing their thing and basically just ignoring each other. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/16 "2018-02-17T19:32:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It also depends on whether or not you consider the Eskimo to be “indigenous”. They came later-- about 5k years ago. Not that I think the early Eskimo people had any cats, but they are often considered to be indigenous along with, although separate from, Amerindians. I should have said the “first indigenous people.” There were actually at least three or four migration events (Amerindians, Na-Dene, Paleo-Eskimos [now extinct], and Eskimos). But they were all hunter-gatherers who would have found no use for cats. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/17 "2018-02-17T19:37:36Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Hrm. How did they keep their grain safe? They didn’t have Norway or Black Rats or House Mice either, which are European imports. Of course native rodents may have been pests but perhaps not as bad as these human commensals. (Actually, I am not aware of any New World rodent that is as much of a pest of stored grain as Norway and Black Rats and House Mice.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/18 "2018-02-17T19:40:19Z")
I don’t know about every cat. But my Siamese are from a great line of overlords and evil dictators. They have ruled the earth for millennia. (I am only saying this because they are watching me) ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/19 "2018-02-17T20:23:57Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Fixed. It’s the right thing to do … ===== Mohammad had a cat … ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996/20 "2018-02-17T20:40:23Z")
Wikipedia says domestic cats were definitely introduced to Greece and Italy by the 5th century BC. As for Abu Hurayrah, that was a lot later… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-north-american-indigenous-people-have-cats/808996.md?page=2)