# Did Obama cause the 31 US Seal Team 6 Deaths? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827 "2011-08-07T14:38:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/21 "2011-08-07T16:25:00Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > It isn’t a secret that we use helicopters. Yes but it is highly secret that Seals use them too. Obama must have put an ad in the Afghanistan News saying when and where they were going. I heard on TV that it was not the Seal team that was killed. Bit that would not matter to Ralph. It could have been. None of them were the team that took out Ben Laden. ---
**Author:** ![Timchik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@Timchik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timchik)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/22 "2011-08-07T16:27:09Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > I first thought the OP was a parody of the blame everything on Obama crowd. I’m still having trouble believing someone actually believes this. [Poe’s Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) in action. Vile partisanship if sincere (which I have no reason to doubt). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/23 "2011-08-07T16:27:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I think you are doing me a grave disservice-I raised a very reasonable issue: No, you baldly turned the deaths of 30 service people into a clumsy partisan weapon. It’s simply the lowest and most wretched sort of desperate attack. It suggests that you don’t have any legitimate issues to win on, so you have to flail around with this filth. > [@](#): > > that of, should a CIC be allowed to exploit a military operation for political gain. Obama DID publicize the attack which resulted in the death of OBL. No, he didn’t. He should have done victory laps and publicly asked Bush and Cheney to kiss his ass, but didn’t. He took the high road. Unlike you. > [@](#): > > He wallowed in the fame, and seemed to revel in the idea that he had a lot to do with it. No he didn’t. You took it that way because your hate for him is primary to your reason. > [@](#): > > Now we have 31 Americans dead, and it seems that someone knew all about this mission. Should Obama be held responsible for these deaths? > I think so. I think nonsense attacks like this are what is causing this nation to crumble in its foundations. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/24 "2011-08-07T16:40:45Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I think you are doing me a grave disservice-I raised a very reasonable issue: that of, should a CIC be allowed to exploit a military operation for political gain. Obama DID publicize the attack which resulted in the death of OBL. He wallowed in the fame, and seemed to revel in the idea that he had a lot to do with it. > Now we have 31 Americans dead, and it seems that someone knew all about this mission. Should Obama be held responsible for these deaths? > I think so. Ultimately the CIC is responsible for every death under the command. We’ll all wait while you explain how you blame Bush for the ~5,000 troops who died in Iraq after he boasted “bring it on” and “MIssion Accomplished”. After that, then we can go over how nobody is responsible for troop deaths unless they somehow informed the enemy where the target would be at a certain place and time. The President doesn’t know these details except in cases like bin Laden’s assassination, which, I hope you’ll agree, went off securely and successfully. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/25 "2011-08-07T16:44:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Now we have 31 Americans dead, and it seems that someone knew all about this mission. In the sense that the enemy saw a helicopter, shot at it and managed to hit it. Do you even have a scrap of evidence to suggest anything otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/26 "2011-08-07T16:47:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama “caused” their deaths in the sense that every president who send troops into battle “causes” some to die. Of course al Qaeda (and possibly the Taliban) would want revenge for the killing of ObL. It makes no difference if they knew it was “SEAL Team Six” that did it. > > I just hope that the deaths of these military personnel helps us get the fuck out of there sooner rather than later. We are in agreement 100% on the last line. And I would certainly hope it’s true that the Taliban did not have advance notice from the inside operatives of the identity of those aboard the helicopter. However, even if they didn’t, they now have the PR jackpot they can utilize to fire up their supporters even more **due to the fact the OBL raid team was ever identified in the first place**. That responsibility does fall squarely on this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/27 "2011-08-07T16:55:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You don’t think they keep RPGs at the ready as a general thing? You think in a war zone that insurgents keep their RPG ammo locked up in a strong box separate from the launcher? Nonsense. That made me think of [this funny picture](http://lolpics.se/pics/11926.png). It has nothing to do with this thread and is no comment on what you said but felt like sharing it anyway if only to lighten the mood. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/28 "2011-08-07T16:56:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, you baldly turned the deaths of 30 service people into a clumsy partisan weapon. It’s simply the lowest and most wretched sort of desperate attack. It suggests that you don’t have any legitimate issues to win on, so you have to flail around with this filth. > > No, he didn’t. He should have done victory laps and publicly asked Bush and Cheney to kiss his ass, but didn’t. He took the high road. Unlike you. > > No he didn’t. You took it that way because your hate for him is primary to your reason. > > I think nonsense attacks like this are what is causing this nation to crumble in its foundations. This. ralph does provide an interesting window into the mindset of a certain segment of the American public. The levels of desperation and irrationality are stunning to witness. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/29 "2011-08-07T16:59:56Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > However, even if they didn’t, they now have the PR jackpot they can utilize to fire up their supporters even more **due to the fact the OBL raid team was ever identified in the first place**. That responsibility does fall squarely on this administration. So, if US military attacks are identified as being completed by US military personnel, and US military personnel are killed in retaliation, can we blame all of those deaths on Obama too? Or is there any point at which you would look at your logic and think to yourself, “This is pretty stupid”? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/30 "2011-08-07T17:14:37Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > So, if US military attacks are identified as being completed by US military personnel, and US military personnel are killed in retaliation, can we blame all of those deaths on Obama too? Or is there any point at which you would look at your logic and think to yourself, “This is pretty stupid”? No, general troop involvement doesn’t give them anything special. Bringing down a copter with at least part of the team on-board that took out OBL does. Had Obama not placed them in the spotlight in order to boost his own ratings, then they would still be just regular troops. The copter goes down either way, the troops are killed either way - but now the Taliban has significant PR fodder because their identities were placed in the spotlight then, and now. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/31 "2011-08-07T17:14:37Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > We are in agreement 100% on the last line. > > And I would certainly hope it’s true that the Taliban did not have advance notice from the inside operatives of the identity of those aboard the helicopter. However, even if they didn’t, they now have the PR jackpot they can utilize to fire up their supporters even more **due to the fact the OBL raid team was ever identified in the first place**. That responsibility does fall squarely on this administration. It was always going to be pretty obvious who carried out the OBL assassination. The Seals or Delta Force. They’re really the only two groups that could possibly have pulled off such a daring mission. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/32 "2011-08-07T17:16:01Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Bringing down a copter with at least part of the team on-board that took out OBL does. I’ve not seen any evidence that the Taleban actually knew who was inside the Chinook when it was brought down; just a random firing of an RPG. Wasn’t it just happenstance that it was members of the Seals? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/33 "2011-08-07T17:18:44Z")
I was listening to a right wing radio station yesterday, and people were actually calling in with a theory that Obama had deliberately set the SEALS up to be killed to silence them so they wouldn’t be able to spill the beans about the bin Laden operation being a hoax. The teabaggers are living in a bubble of self-delusion and fantasy that is chilling to behold. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/34 "2011-08-07T17:20:44Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > No, general troop involvement doesn’t give them anything special. Bringing down a copter with at least part of the team on-board that took out OBL does. Had Obama not placed them in the spotlight in order to boost his own ratings, then they would still be just regular troops. > > The copter goes down either way, the troops are killed either way - but now the Taliban has significant PR fodder because their identities were placed in the spotlight then, and now. And what makes you think it was widely publicized that the people in the helicopter were part of that team? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/35 "2011-08-07T17:22:24Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I’ve not seen any evidence that the Taleban actually knew who was inside the Chinook when it was brought down; just a random firing of an RPG. Wasn’t it just happenstance that it was members of the Seals? Doesn’t matter if they knew beforehand..due to the news coverage after the fact, they now realize who they brought down..Much celebration and PR among their supporters ensues. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/36 "2011-08-07T17:23:31Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Doesn’t matter if the knew beforehand..due to the news coverage after the fact, they now realize who they brought down..Much celebration and PR among their supporters ensues. Oh okay, so step 1) Seal Team Six kills Bin Laden, step 2)… step 3) profit! ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/37 "2011-08-07T17:26:30Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Oh okay, so step 1) Seal Team Six kills Bin Laden, step 2)… step 3) profit! Again, had the current Administration not placed a name and face onto the team that took out OBL. none of the extra benefit and PR would be at the Taliban’s doorstep now for taking them down. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/38 "2011-08-07T17:37:16Z")
The administration didn’t place names or faces on anybody. There technically is no SEAL team 6. That’s basically just a media contrived designation for a team which is essentially anonymous.The administration, at best, revealed that it was a SEAL team, which is something everybody would have known anyway. Furthermore, the Taliban had no idea who they were shooting down when they hit that helicopter, and it’s a target that they would have hit regardless. Basically, you’re saying that Obama should not have killed bin Laden at all, since it could have only been carried out by US Special Ops, and that would make US Special Ops personnel targets of the Taliban. Well, guess what…they already WERE targets. To carry your inane argument out to its logical extension, no President should ever allow any US military personnel kill any enemy target because that would make the US military into a target. This has to be the dumbest, most reaching “blame Obama” bullshit of the summer, but there’s still a few weeks left. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/39 "2011-08-07T17:39:56Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Again, had the current Administration not placed a name and face onto the team that took out OBL. none of the extra benefit and PR would be at the Taliban’s doorstep now for taking them down. You’re contending that there wouldn’t have been mass celebration amongst the Taleban for downing an American special forces team regardless? As I said, there’s literally two special forces groups in the entire world who had the expertise and funding to carry out the Bin Laden assassination, both of whom are American. It’s got to be said, though, that it’s amusing watching the thrashing about on the American right. Apparently killing Osama fucking Bin Laden and publicly acknowledging it was now a grave error on Obama’s part due to some random shot from an RPG. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827/40 "2011-08-07T17:42:00Z")
Yeah, this is a misplaced attack on Obama. He’s not responsible for this. The Taliban is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-cause-the-31-us-seal-team-6-deaths/591827.md?page=3)