# Did Obama try to delay US troop withdrawal from Iraq? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723 "2008-09-15T18:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/1 "2008-09-15T18:03:53Z")
Granted, this is the New York Post, but I hate having to make excuses for what can be seen as putting politics before the troops’ welfare. [link](http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/2 "2008-09-15T18:10:12Z")
How credible does this sound to you? > [@The Post](#): > > Though Obama claims the US presence is “illegal,” he suddenly remembered that Americans troops were in Iraq within the legal framework of a UN mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/3 "2008-09-15T18:21:50Z")
The author of the NY Post article is a crank with a [history of fabricating stories](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Taheri#Controversies), including the one that [Iran was going to require badges for Christians and Jews](http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/badges.asp) that some people here might remember. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/4 "2008-09-15T18:22:38Z")
As someone responded in the comments in the OP’s article this is spin to make something that was spoken of openly into something ominous. > [@](#): > > He [Obama] said he told Zebari that negotiations for a Status of Forces agreement or strategic framework agreement between the two countries should be done in the open and with Congress’s authorization and that it was important that that there be strong bipartisan support for any agreement so that it can be sustained through a future administration. He argued it would make sense to hold off on such negotiations until the next administration. > > “My concern is that the Bush administration–in a weakened state politically–ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next administration, whether it was my administration or Sen. McCain’s administration,” Obama said. “The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that’s currently made.” > > SOURCE: [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/16/1146329.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/16/1146329.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/5 "2008-09-15T18:30:13Z")
All I can see is that he said (publicly), that the agreement for withdrawal should be worked out by the next administration and with the cooperation of Congress. How is that “stalling the withdrawal?” Yet the guy that says he’s comfortable staying for 100 years and won’t agree to set a timetable is _not_ stalling the withdrawal? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/6 "2008-09-15T19:38:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > All I can see is that he said (publicly), that the agreement for withdrawal should be worked out by the next administration and with the cooperation of Congress. How is that “stalling the withdrawal?” Cite where he said that publicly. The REAL Obama proposed a [bill in the Senate](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013001586.html) to have all the troops out by March of this year. Obama the Democratic Primary candidate showed he wanted the troops out immediately. This was nothing but a stunt on his part for the Cindy Sheehan crowd. Obama the Presidential Candidate now calls for withdrawal time table of 16 months. Judging from his actions and what Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said, it is apparent that Obama has no clue on foreign policy and will say anything to get elected. And while we’re on the subject, why is the person running as Commander in Chief trying to dump this on Congress and a bunch of committees? He’s already abdicating his responsibilities before the election. If McCain tried to delay troop withdrawals until after the election you would have gone nuts over it. You’ve set the bar so low for Obama that a sheet of paper couldn’t slide under. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/7 "2008-09-15T19:46:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Cite where he said that publicly. Scroll up. Post #4. > [@](#): > > The REAL Obama proposed a [bill in the Senate](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013001586.html) to have all the troops out by March of this year. So? > [@](#): > > Obama the Democratic Primary candidate showed he wanted the troops out immediately. Obama has never said that, ever. > [@](#): > > Obama the Presidential Candidate now calls for withdrawal time table of 16 months. Which is exactly what he said in the Primaries. > [@](#): > > Judging from his actions and what Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said, it is apparent that Obama has no clue on foreign policy and will say anything to get elected. You’ll have to be more specific. Which of Obama’s actions or words have indicated a lack of knowledge of foreign policy? > [@](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, why is the person running as Commander in Chief trying to dump this on Congress and a bunch of committees? He’s already abdicating his responsibilities before the election. You’ll have to provide a cite for wher he said that he wants to dump it on “committees.” > [@](#): > > If McCain tried to delay troop withdrawals until after the election you would have gone nuts over it. Cite for McCain agreeing to any troop movements before the election? Cite for McCain agreeing to any timetable at all? Obama isn’t “stalling” anything. He’s saying he wants to make a deal after the election. McCain is happy to stay there for 100 years. Who’s doing the stalling here? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/8 "2008-09-15T20:01:44Z")
DIO, I posted a link showing Obama’s Senate bill stating a withdrawal this year. You’re in denial. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/9 "2008-09-15T20:04:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > DIO, I posted a link showing Obama’s Senate bill stating a withdrawal this year. You’re in denial. Enjoy. He saw it. He’s questioning its relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/10 "2008-09-15T21:26:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > DIO, I posted a link showing Obama’s Senate bill stating a withdrawal this year. You’re in denial. Enjoy. It was a proposal in January of 2007 that asked for about a 14 month withdrawal timeline. It was not a proposal for _immediate_ withdrawal, as you alleged. It was a request for a phased withdrawal over more than a year, essentially the same approach he supported in the Primaries and now. What am I denying? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/11 "2008-09-16T23:50:00Z")
[Obama responds.](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hi9TDNHvuBZpFsO8ZbiFYsnbIl3A) Some (conservatives, mostly) have said that this statement _confirms_ the Taheri story. Is this so? Is there any chance it could be perceived as such, necessitating clarification? Will this thing get any traction among people who don’t automatically loathe Obama and everything he believes in? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/12 "2008-09-17T01:50:06Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > [Obama responds.](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hi9TDNHvuBZpFsO8ZbiFYsnbIl3A) > > Some (conservatives, mostly) have said that this statement _confirms_ the Taheri story. Is this so? Is there any chance it could be perceived as such, necessitating clarification? Will this thing get any traction among people who don’t automatically loathe Obama and everything he believes in? You weren’t expectiong the facts to get in the way of debate were you? Obama attempted to intervene with a foreign government and delay the process of troop withdrawal. He is on record as having done so. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/13 "2008-09-17T01:51:06Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/14 "2008-09-17T01:58:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite? Already cited. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/15 "2008-09-17T02:11:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Already cited. If you think this thread, or anything in it, is your cite, I fear you are mistaken. Obama never tried to delay US troop withdrawal. Obama never attempted to intervene with a foreign government and delay the process of troop withdrawal. Those are simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/16 "2008-09-17T02:28:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You weren’t expectiong the facts to get in the way of debate were you? > Obama attempted to intervene with a foreign government and delay the process of troop withdrawal. He is on record as having done so. You are showing absolutely no knowledge of what is actually being negotiated. The agreement that is being discussed concerns the relationship between the United States and Iraq that has to do with, on one hand, the long-term strategy of how Iraq and the US will deal with threats to Iraq: Is the US obligated to defend Iraq against an Iranian invasion? Is the US obligated to support the Iraqi government if Sadr’s militias attempt to overthrow the government? Under what conditions will the US sell arms to Iraq? Is there a general trend to how these security agreements will continue as Iraq regains its military power? When does authority to detain suspected bad guys transfer from the US to Iraq? On the other hand, the agreement concerns the status of forces of US troops in Iraq. If a GI shoots a child, and he claims it is in self-defense, who has the authority to investigate? If an off duty soldier gets drunk and beats up an Iraqi civilian, which justice system will he be accountable to? These are questions that have been vaguely and temporarily addressed by a series of UN Security Council resolutions, which will not be renewed. This proposed agreement has jack-all to do with how many troops will be in Iraq between now and next spring. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Anyone who claims otherwise is completely ignorant of the facts. [Cite.](http://www.cfr.org/publication/16448/us_security_agreements_and_iraq.html) Your claim that postponing these agreements will delay troop withdrawals is embarrassingly wrong. In fact, Obama’s proposals for a phased withdrawal from Iraq were endorsed by the Iraqi Prime Minister, much to the chagrin of the White House. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/17 "2008-09-17T02:33:09Z")
Its like\* deja vu \*all over again, but with extra nausea. Arguing with some jerk about whether Kerry was a traitor because he talked to North Vietnamese negotiators in Paris. Now its back in another form. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/18 "2008-09-17T03:08:59Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > If you think this thread, or anything in it, is your cite, I fear you are mistaken. > > Obama never tried to delay US troop withdrawal. > Obama never attempted to intervene with a foreign government and delay the process of troop withdrawal. > Those are simply wrong. From the cite listed above: \*\*But Obama’s national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said Taheri’s article bore “as much resemblance to the truth as a McCain campaign commercial.” In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a “Strategic Framework Agreement” governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said\*\* Quacks like a duck. Maybe Obama should tell his national security spokeswoman. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/19 "2008-09-17T03:33:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its like\* deja vu \*all over again, but with extra nausea. Arguing with some jerk about whether Kerry was a traitor because he talked to North Vietnamese negotiators in Paris. Now its back in another form. Denying that veterans and their supporters would be offended by a candidate who lied at a congressional hearing about war atrocities is pointless. But hey, start another Kerry thread so it can be explained to you again. It was an easy win for Democrats in the last election. But no, Democrats chose John “I’m a Vietnam Vet” Kerry. The crowning moment was his convention acceptance speech when he said “I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for duty (complete with salute). Oh, forgot to say thanks. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723/20 "2008-09-17T12:18:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a “Strategic Framework Agreement” governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said\*\*[/COLOR] Quacks like a duck. Let me say this as simply as I can: a status of forces agreement allows the US to keep troops in another country for a long time. Not getting a status of forces agreement would mean that the US presence is short-lived. Again, you have no clue whatsoever what you’re talking about. You might as well be trying to score a political point by arguing that black is white, day is night, and that George Bush and John McCain want to pull our troops out of Iraq quickly. You’re supporting conspiracy theory nonsense and you should at least admit that you don’t know the first thing about what you’re talking about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-try-to-delay-us-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq/463723.md?page=2)