# Did Obama violate the Logan Act? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602 "2017-07-06T14:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/21 "2017-07-06T19:05:31Z")
It would be hilarious if Barack Obama and/or Bill Clinton went around the world and accomplished more statecraft than the entire Trump White House. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/22 "2017-07-06T21:46:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > According to my Facebook feed, he did (and Trump has a nasty surprise for him when he gets back :rolleyes:). > > I tried to Google: “Obama Logan Act” but all I’m getting is a bunch of Right Wing sites. > Does anyone know if their is any merit to this story? > > Thanks. Kinda answers the question, doesn’t it? It’s like if your facebook feed lights up about the CDC hiding the truth about vaccines, and the only sites you can find it on are NaturalNews, Mercola, GreenMedInfo, and Whale.to - you can already tell the answer. It’s bullshit. If it shows up in real news later, then maybe pay attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/23 "2017-07-06T22:27:55Z")
What, again with this stuff? Shit, I remember hassling with the Nameless One for page after page, about how Kerry broke the Logan Act in the process of treason, negotiating to surrender to the N. Vietnamese! Ah, leaden memories… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/24 "2017-07-06T22:37:53Z")
I think some of us might need to take Chuck D’s advice here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/25 "2017-07-07T01:45:55Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Somehow I doubt they’re going to want make Obama the test case even if he is a discredited, disgraced and fallen President. Since he’s none of those, the notion is even farther-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/26 "2017-07-07T01:58:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The Logan act was brought up over the Flynn affair so I have a hard time believing people writing commentary on this aren’t aware that no one has been charged under the Logan Act in over 200 years. Somehow I doubt they’re going to want make Obama the test case even if he is a discredited, disgraced and fallen President. The Logan Act, much like the IRS rules about churches, is probably unenforceable. It’s designed to chill speech, not actually punish speech. And since the Logan Act does essentially punish speech, it’s probably unconstitutional. That being said, if you did want to do a test case, you’d probably want someone who is obviously conducting their own foreign policy AGAINST the policy of the administration in office. But that’s probably just treason and it would likely be charged as such. Since we already have treason laws, the Logan Act essentially tries to deter people from doing resaonable things that the administration wants someone else to do, or wants to do later. It’s about as meaningful as saying, “Citizens shall not sign domestic bills and call them laws.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/27 "2017-07-07T01:59:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It would be hilarious if Barack Obama and/or Bill Clinton went around the world and accomplished more statecraft than the entire Trump White House. Carter is still alive and if anyone was ever going to be charged it would be him. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/28 "2017-07-07T02:34:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Logan Act, much like the IRS rules about churches, is probably unenforceable. It’s designed to chill speech, not actually punish speech. And since the Logan Act does essentially punish speech, it’s probably unconstitutional" Why don’t you unfold that out some more. The Logan Act is generally considered unconstitutional mostly owing to it’s vagueness. I’d love to hear why you think churches’ special treatment wrt tax exemption is likely unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/29 "2017-07-07T02:36:02Z")
If it wasn’t, the iRS would have the balls to take action. Tax breaks cannot be conditional on surrendering 1st amendment rights. If so, then I’ve got a great idea for Republicans to win every election: a $500 per person tax credit if they don’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/30 "2017-07-07T02:50:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it wasn’t, the iRS would have the balls to take action. Tax breaks cannot be conditional on surrendering 1st amendment rights. If so, then I’ve got a great idea for Republicans to win every election: a $500 per person tax credit if they don’t vote. Or you could just declare the Republican party a church so all donations get a tax exemption. Why not? None of these speech chilling IRS rules define a church/religion very rigourously. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/31 "2017-07-07T03:19:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it wasn’t, the iRS would have the balls to take action. That’s just false. What keeps the IRS from taking action is that the politicians would rake them over the coals if they made a habit of enforcing it. Religious voters have a lot of clout. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/32 "2017-07-07T03:22:21Z")
Worst economic performance since the early 1900’s? That’s so blatantly false that I would have to question the sanity and anger levels of anyone who reads and believes that site. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/33 "2017-07-07T03:43:20Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > That’s just false. What keeps the IRS from taking action is that the politicians would rake them over the coals if they made a habit of enforcing it. Religious voters have a lot of clout. While it’s hard to prove motivation, the regulation in question is constitutionally questionable and apparently politically toxic as well, which means that it’s a dead letter except for it’s chilling effect. And that’s by design. I don’t think Senator LBJ actually wanted to take action against anyone, I think he just wanted to scare his religious political opponents into silence. The Logan Act is a similar deterrent. They don’t expect to actually get anyone, they just want people to keep it in mind. For that reason, courts should probably not require standing in 1st amendment cases. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/34 "2017-07-07T12:27:54Z")
The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government’s position.[2] The Act was passed following George Logan’s unauthorized negotiations with France in 1798, and was signed into law by President John Adams on January 30, 1799. The Act was last amended in 1994, and violation of the Logan Act is a felony. To date, only one person has ever been indicted for violating the Act’s provisions.[2] However, no person has ever been prosecuted for alleged violations of the Act. \>\>\>What if the Clinton foundation or some Group Obama has control over offered money in exchange for a political act? Would that violate the Logan act? For example, Obama gives aid and money to the Iran as a citizen or Clinton needs to offer quid pro quo back to those who funded her politics. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/35 "2017-07-07T12:46:40Z")
Adams also signed the Alien and Sedition Acts, which should tell you how well considered the Logan Act was. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/36 "2017-07-07T15:33:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And that’s by design. I don’t think Senator LBJ actually wanted to take action against anyone, I think he just wanted to scare his religious political opponents into silence. It did prevent campaign money from being funneled through these organizations in a tax-exempt way. Why have a Super PAC when you can send money to support a candidate, tax-exempt, and not traceable because churches don’t have to report on their money flow. The Johnson Amendment kept that from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman1068](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Bassman1068](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman1068)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/37 "2017-09-23T05:11:27Z")
The fact that no liberal biased so-called “news” outlets appeared in a Google search simply means that it’s another story being ignored by the liberal media. Similar to how NBC has made no mention whatsoever regarding Bob Menendez’s corruption & bribery trial. Usually, when it comes to bad news involving a Democrat you have to go to page two or maybe even three of a Google search to find a liberal outlet report ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/38 "2017-09-23T05:22:13Z")
> [@Bassman1068](#): > > The fact that no liberal biased so-called “news” outlets appeared in a Google search simply means that it’s another story being ignored by the liberal media. Similar to how NBC has made no mention whatsoever regarding Bob Menendez’s corruption & bribery trial. Usually, when it comes to bad news involving a Democrat you have to go to page two or maybe even three of a Google search to find a liberal outlet report 😃 Oh, wait…are you actually serious? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/39 "2017-09-23T06:31:47Z")
> [@Bassman1068](#): > > The fact that no liberal biased so-called “news” outlets appeared in a Google search simply means that it’s another story being ignored by the liberal media. Similar to how NBC has made no mention whatsoever regarding Bob Menendez’s corruption & bribery trial. Usually, when it comes to bad news involving a Democrat you have to go to page two or maybe even three of a Google search to find a liberal outlet report [Let Me Google That For You](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bob+Menendez%27s+corruption+%26+bribery+trial+site%3Anbcnews.com) I only get 128 results of reports about Bob Menendez’s corruption & bribery trial from the [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) domain. If NBC is intending to make no mention of it then they are going about it in an odd way. And without limiting to the [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) domain I get results pointing to reports on the websites of liberal leaning NPR, Washington Post, Huffington Post, [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), CNN, and, yes, [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) on the first page of Google results. And only one mention each by Foxnews and NYPost on the conservative media front. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602/40 "2017-09-23T06:46:20Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > [Let Me Google That For You](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bob+Menendez%27s+corruption+%26+bribery+trial+site%3Anbcnews.com) > > I only get 128 results of reports about Bob Menendez’s corruption & bribery trial from the [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) domain. If NBC is intending to make no mention of it then they are going about it in an odd way. > > And without limiting to the [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) domain I get results pointing to reports on the websites of liberal leaning NPR, Washington Post, Huffington Post, [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), CNN, and, yes, [nbcnews.com](http://nbcnews.com) on the first page of Google results. And only one mention each by Foxnews and NYPost on the conservative media front. It seems like **Bassman1068** didn’t realize how fervent we are about being right, going so far as to actually check if something is true before arguing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-obama-violate-the-logan-act/790602.md?page=3)