# Did office users in the 1950s really drink gin and scotch on the job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381 "2007-07-19T14:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/21 "2007-07-19T18:46:29Z")
It was in the early 60’s that an ad exec instructed his people to drink bourbon or scotch instead of vodka. The reasoning being when they screwed up a presentation in the afternoon, he’d rather the client think they were drunk rather than stupid. Sounds like drinking on the job was pretty widespread. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/22 "2007-07-19T18:54:03Z")
Submitted for debunkification: I thought that there was a major change in IRS rules back in the eighties or so that _severely_ tightened up write-offs for dining/entertainment expenses. Something along the lines of no longer allowing or limiting the amount of liquor that could be written off–hence the beginning of the end for the proverbial three-martini lunch. Did I make that up? Did I read it in a cartoon somewhere? Anyone? Thanks, Rhythm, Who works at home, and in honor of this thread is about to pour himself a glass of scotch 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/23 "2007-07-19T18:54:04Z")
I did a few months work with a company a few years ago where going to the pub was a fixture every Friday. The company was only small, but everyone in the office went, had a few, then went back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/24 "2007-07-19T18:58:59Z")
You see what life was like without the SDMB? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/25 "2007-07-19T19:04:31Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] I keep some vodka, scotch, rum, and mixers as well as a case of beer at my office. It is not consumed during work hours, but there are some days when we sit around after work and knock back a few. My employees are all over 21, and I view recreational consumption of alcohol as therapeutic under certain circumstances. [/QUOTE] Are you hiring? Do you need a lawyer? ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/26 "2007-07-19T19:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] Submitted for debunkification: I thought that there was a major change in IRS rules back in the eighties or so that _severely_ tightened up write-offs for dining/entertainment expenses. Something along the lines of no longer allowing or limiting the amount of liquor that could be written off–hence the beginning of the end for the proverbial three-martini lunch. [/QUOTE] This cite references such tax reforms in 1986 and again in 1993. [http://waysandmeans.house.gov/Legacy/fullcomm/106cong/6-23-99/6-23woly.htm](http://waysandmeans.house.gov/Legacy/fullcomm/106cong/6-23-99/6-23woly.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/27 "2007-07-19T19:37:34Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] 2) Sales people. Liquor made sales calls easier. You bonded with the person, drank whatever the client drank, and generally tried to slip one over after the other was soused. [/QUOTE] I thought I read it on the Straight Dope that the drink known as the Gibson was created for this purpose. A guy named Gibson had rather weak martinis made and marked with an onion rather than an olive. The client would be getting soused while Gibson stayed steady on his lower-powered cocktail. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/28 "2007-07-19T20:29:15Z")
And the slogan for Smirnoff Vodka was Smirnoff leaves you breathless. As a kid at a time, it made no sense to me but later I learned they were pushing vodka so you didn’t have the telltale scent of alcohol on your breath. And the Gibson story, while widespread, is almost certainly a UL. [This one](http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308c&L=ads-l&D=1&P=6735) is more likely: > [@](#): > > The Gibson Cocktail. The most cosmopolitan person, the only boulevardier I ever knew was my good friend, the now-departed Walter Campbell Gibson. Walter was a partner in the firm of H. Hentz, through which the master speculator, Bernard Baruch, traded in the 20s and 30s. Walter lived much of his life in Europe, particularly in Paris and knew everyone there. A moderate drinker, he favored the cozy, small Ritz bar in the rear of the Ritz Hotel on the Place Vendôme. > > His favorite drink was a dry martini, straight up. In those days there was no such thing as “on the rocks”. One day Walter asked for a pearl onion in his cocktail instead of the customary olive. Although probably not a usual staple in a prewar Parisian bar, the usual Ritz efficiency produced a small white onion with a little effort. Thus the Gibson was invented and named after the man who preferred an onion to an olive. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/29 "2007-07-19T20:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] I thought I read it on the Straight Dope that the drink known as the Gibson was created for this purpose. [/QUOTE] Unless/until Cecil comes in with a definitive answer, the origin is in doubt. Some stories from [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini_%28cocktail%29#History_of_the_drink): > [@](#): > > Although Charles Dana Gibson is most likely responsible for the creation of the Gibson martini (where a pickled onion serves as the garnish), the details are debated and several alternate stories exist. In one story, Gibson challenged Charley Connolly, the bartender of the Players’ Club in New York City, to improve upon the martini’s recipe, so Connolly simply substituted an onion for the olive and named the drink after the patron. Other stories involve different Gibsons, such as an apocryphal American diplomat who served in Europe during Prohibition. Although he was a teetotaller, he often had to attend receptions where cocktails were served. To avoid an awkward situation, Gibson would ask the staff to fill his martini glass with cold water and garnish it with a small onion so that he could pick it out among the gin drinks. A similar story postulates a savvy investment banker named Gibson, who would take his clients out for the proverbial three-martini business lunches. He purportedly had the bartender serve him cold water, permitting him to remain sober while his clients became intoxicated; the cocktail onion garnish served to distinguish his beverage from those of his clients. > > Another version of the origin story, included in The Good Man’s Weakness by Charles McCabe, states that the drink was created in San Francisco by Walter D. K. Gibson (1864-1938) at the Bohemian Club around 1900. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_British_Shop_Owner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/30 "2007-07-19T21:02:27Z")
[QUOTE=gotpasswords] Bankers can really slug it back at 5:01, I tells ya! A few years ago, when I was at a different bank, you could tell it was 5:00 on Friday as the sound of pop-tops and corks filled the building. Once in a while, somebody would break out the blenders for margaritas. [/QUOTE] I don’t know what kind of bank you were in where the Bankers stopped working at five! But yes, we could drink. A lot. There are still remenants of this culture in the UK, and I am sad to see it go. I partly blame stronger beers: I haven’t seen a pint of mild for donkey’s. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_British_Shop_Owner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/31 "2007-07-19T21:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Well let’s see Alcoholics Anonymous was started in 1939 by a doctor and a lawyer…It’s interesting that in the Big Book - the AA book - the stories talk about employers in the 40’s and 50’s talking about giving people breaks for having too much drink etc…etc… back then it was a stint in an asylum, no programs or anything for alcoholics. There’s chapters to the empoyer, to the wives to the family…and they all start with phrases like: When you man/husband goes on a bender you should take close care of them so as not to embarrass them in their place of work or in social situations.etc…etc.. It wasn’t until alcoholics Anonymous type programs started to bring to people’s attention things like alcoholism in the work place and home…that paradigm changes actually happened. [/QUOTE] Disgusting, really. A few people who couldn’t handle their drink spoiled the fun for ninety nine percent of us. And said people still can’t handle their drink. But this is always the case with the nanny state culture when it discovers a good yet treacherous thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/32 "2007-07-19T21:19:58Z")
My conservative large corp employer’s policy is ‘no drinking at company events, property, etc’ and has a single exception. Salesmen entertaining customers can use alcohol as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/33 "2007-07-19T21:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner] Disgusting, really. A few people who couldn’t handle their drink spoiled the fun for ninety nine percent of us. And said people still can’t handle their drink. But this is always the case with the nanny state culture when it discovers a good yet treacherous thing. [/QUOTE] A little more treacherous than you think, maybe: From a recently published study: "About 42 percent of men and about 19 percent of women reported a history of either alcohol abuse or alcoholism during their lives. Whites and Native Americans were more likely than other ethnic groups to report drinking problems. Alcohol abuse was defined as drinking-related failure to fulfill major obligations at work, school or home; social or legal problems; and drinking in hazardous situations. Alcoholism was characterized by compulsive drinking; preoccupation with drinking; and tolerance to alcohol or withdrawal symptoms." [http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story\_id=030000MUKM4C](http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=030000MUKM4C) ---
**Author:** ![Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Small\_British\_Shop\_Owner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_British_Shop_Owner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/34 "2007-07-19T21:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=cher3] A little more treacherous than you think, maybe: From a recently published study: "About 42 percent of men and about 19 percent of women reported a history of either alcohol abuse or alcoholism during their lives. Whites and Native Americans were more likely than other ethnic groups to report drinking problems. Alcohol abuse was defined as drinking-related failure to fulfill major obligations at work, school or home; social or legal problems; and drinking in hazardous situations. Alcoholism was characterized by compulsive drinking; preoccupation with drinking; and tolerance to alcohol or withdrawal symptoms." [http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story\_id=030000MUKM4C](http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=030000MUKM4C) [/QUOTE] Note the crappy definition that makes someone who calls in sick one day with a hangover as having an alcohol problem. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/35 "2007-07-19T21:38:50Z")
[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner] Note the crappy definition that makes someone who calls in sick one day with a hangover as having an alcohol problem. [/QUOTE] Not to mention “tolerance to alcohol.” If definitions like these are applied, just about everyone is an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/36 "2007-07-19T21:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner] Note the crappy definition that makes someone who calls in sick one day with a hangover as having an alcohol problem. [/QUOTE] I drink quite a bit and I don’t call in sick because of a hangover. If I have to go to work the next day, I just don’t drink as much. If you drink to the point that you can’t go to work, I’d say you did have a problem. Now that’s not to say I don’t tie one on if I don’t have to work, but it’s been a good 20 years or so since I’ve called in sick because of being hungover (not to say I haven’t gone to work hungover). Interestingly enough, I hardly drink on the weekends. I don’t want to feel even the least little down on my free time 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/37 "2007-07-19T21:52:50Z")
No, that’s not what it means. It just means that alcoholics aren’t by any means the only people to have significant problems related to alcohol use over the course of their lifetimes. They’re actually quite specific about the definitions. I’ve just observed that a lot of people write off a pretty chronic problems related to alcohol use just because they aren’t, clinically-speaking, alcoholic. I’m not trying to hijack, I just objected to the notion that 99% of drinkers were just fine thank you and it was those few alkies that ruined everything. Someone in another thread mentioned that they knew someone who was fired because her boss found out she used a sick day to go the beach. How would using a sick day to nurse a hangover be any more acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/38 "2007-07-19T21:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Now that’s not to say I don’t tie one on if I don’t have to work, but it’s been a good 20 years or so since I’ve called in sick because of being hungover (not to say I haven’t gone to work hungover). 😕 So you did have an alcohol problem, twenty years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/39 "2007-07-19T21:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] I thought that there was a major change in IRS rules back in the eighties or so that _severely_ tightened up write-offs for dining/entertainment expenses. Something along the lines of no longer allowing or limiting the amount of liquor that could be written off–hence the beginning of the end for the proverbial three-martini lunch. Did I make that up? [/QUOTE] No, the government limited tax deductions for “business entertainment” as part of the tax reform act of, I believe, 1986. The issue was first raised by Jimmy Carter during his 1976 campaign. Carter coined or at least popularized the phrase “three-martini lunch”. The gripe at the time, with respect to three martinis, wasn’t so much that they were alcoholic but that they were _extravagant_. Businessmen (and it was usually men at the time) were treating themselves to expensive lunches at company expense, for which neither they nor the company would pay taxes. Carter failed to get a tax reform law enacted during his administration, and the issue remained to be mopped up during the Reagan years. By that time, however, the _literal_ three-martini lunch was already in decline, due to the reasons mentioned in this thread–social disapproval of heavy drinking, liability concerns, more women in the workplace, and a more rigorous and competitive business environment. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381/40 "2007-07-19T22:19:13Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] 😕 So you did have an alcohol problem, twenty years ago? [/QUOTE] I tended to not give a fuck back then, I’d call in sick for any number of excuses including staying up all night drinking. Then I grew up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-office-users-in-the-1950s-really-drink-gin-and-scotch-on-the-job/412381.md?page=3)