# Did Olmert make Rice change UN vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112 "2009-01-13T17:22:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/1 "2009-01-13T17:22:42Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/washington/13olmert.html?ref=world](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/washington/13olmert.html?ref=world) > [@](#): > > In an unusually public rebuke, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel said Monday that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had been forced to abstain from a United Nations resolution on Gaza that she helped draft, after Mr. Olmert placed a phone call to President Bush. > > “I said, ‘Get me President Bush on the phone,’ ” Mr. Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, according to The Associated Press. “They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn’t care: ‘I need to talk to him now,’ ” Mr. Olmert continued. “He got off the podium and spoke to me.” > > Israel opposed the resolution, which called for a halt to the fighting in Gaza, because the government said it did not provide for Israel’s security. It passed 14 to 0, with the United States abstaining. > > Mr. Olmert claimed that once he made his case to Mr. Bush, the president called Ms. Rice and told her to abstain. “She was left pretty embarrassed,” Mr. Olmert said, according to The A.P. ``` Now I am firmly in the camp which believes that the Israel lobby has too much influence in DC but this is pretty hard to believe especially the bit about Bush getting off the podium to speak to Olmert. The State Department is denying the vote was changed. So is Olmert making this up and if so why? Regardless of whether Olmert is telling the truth I think it's pretty revealing that he feels he can humiliate a US secretary of state in this way. ``` ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/2 "2009-01-13T17:25:47Z")
The Secretary of State does not vote at the United nations. We have a UN ambassador for that function. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/3 "2009-01-13T17:29:15Z")
OK, assuming that what Olmert meant was that Rice directed the UN ambassador to abstain, how reliable is Olmert? Has he a reputation for absolute honesty? Or does he have a Reagan/Clinton/Bush II tendency to create reality as he needs to? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/4 "2009-01-13T17:35:13Z")
Yes but the UN ambassador doesn’t get to choose how to vote for high-profile resolutions like this one. Presumably since Rice was playing such a big role in the resolution, he was receiving instructions from her. Edit:saw your second post. That’s precisely the question I am asking. Is Olmert just making this up? Of course he could be partly telling the truth and also embellishing some details: i.e. Israel did manage to get the vote changed but the bit about Bush walking off the podium is made up. Even if he is making it all up he presumably think the story is believable which tells you something. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/5 "2009-01-13T17:35:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The Secretary of State does not vote at the United nations. We have a UN ambassador for that function. I don’t think your correct. [This article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/09/AR2009010900385_2.html) has a picture of Rice voting to abstain. I suspect that when the SoS is present at UN Security Council meetings, she does the actual voting instead of the Ambassador. ETA: Also I think the guy who looks like he’s taking a nap behind her instead of voting is Zalmay Khalilzad, the US Ambassador to the UN ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/6 "2009-01-13T17:38:00Z")
It almost doesn’t matter if he’s lying – either way, he clearly feels comfortable either using, or portraying, Rice (and/or GWB) as his lackey. If I say your wife, uh, whatevered me, that’s hostile whether true or a lie. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/7 "2009-01-13T17:38:07Z")
> [@](#): > > In an unusually public rebuke . . . It is not clear to me whom Olmert is rebuking for what. Certainly not Bush and Rice for doing what he asked? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/8 "2009-01-13T17:42:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is not clear to me whom Olmert is rebuking for what. Certainly not Bush and Rice for doing what he asked? I read it that “rebuke” is implicit in the fact that he is publicly lording his (claimed) dominance over them as punishment for Rice’s earlier plan to vote in favor of the resolution, which he was against. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/9 "2009-01-13T18:08:15Z")
> **[Olmert says he talked Bush out of vote](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-jan-13-fg-gaza-un13-story.html)** > > Olmert says he talked Bush out of cease-fire vote More on the story: > [@](#): > > “This is terrible for the United States,” said Daniel Levy, a former Israeli peace negotiator. “This confirms every assumption they have in the Arab world about the tail wagging the dog. . . . It’s a story you’re likely to hear quoted there for years to come.” > > Levy also accused Olmert of “unparalleled arrogance.” Olmert, who is about to leave office, may have thought mistakenly that his words would not be widely noticed. > > “There are some things you don’t say, even in Ashkelon, even in Hebrew,” said Levy, who is now with the Century Foundation in Washington. > [@](#): > > There had been speculation that Rice was ordered to change course, and Olmert’s version of events “seemed to make sense,” said Nathan Brown, head of Middle East studies at George Washington University. > > Rice had been pushing hard for the resolution draft, then abruptly shifted ground. Several European diplomats said afterward that they were shocked by the move. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/10 "2009-01-13T18:44:20Z")
Is there a reason Olmert wants folks to think that he has the “juice” to make GWB/Rice/USA do his bidding? (Cue Vader: “What is thy bidding, my Master?”) Is he intending this for his home crowd, to create some form of impression that he is a powerful guy, still? Is he intending to inflame the stereotype that the other Middle East countries have of the USA/Isreali relationship? (Intended, maybe, to “force” the US in Isreal’s “camp”, by causing tension and hostility between Isreal’s enemies in the ME towards the US, leading to real acts, and creating an Enemy-of-my-enemy situation from the US viewpoint.) Or is he not that clever? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/11 "2009-01-13T18:49:42Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Is he intending to inflame the stereotype that the other Middle East countries have of the USA/Isreali relationship? (Intended, maybe, to “force” the US in Isreal’s “camp”, by causing tension and hostility between Isreal’s enemies in the ME towards the US, leading to real acts, and creating an Enemy-of-my-enemy situation from the US viewpoint.) I’d go with that, speculatively. It may not be coincidental that with a new Administration coming in, he would see it as advantageous to show that he’s not unwilling to try to make even a very pro-Israel Administration/official look like his biatch when they deviate from his party line. Hey Obama, there’s more in store if you give us any static on Gaza, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/12 "2009-01-13T18:59:10Z")
My guess is that Olmert was more or less telling the truth but thought it wouldn’t be widely reported because it was in Hebrew. [http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE50C43020090113](http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE50C43020090113) Some more details: > [@](#): > > Arab ministers said after the U.N. vote Thursday that Rice had promised them the United States would support the resolution, but then made an about-face after talking to Bush. > > A few minutes before the scheduled vote at the United Nations, Rice’s staff told reporters she would make a few brief comments beforehand, but then abruptly canceled her press appearance, saying she would instead speak to Bush by phone. > > The vote was delayed while other ministers waited for Rice to finish the call. She then entered the U.N. Security Council chamber, huddled with Arab ministers who shook their heads as she spoke to them. > > Immediately after the vote, Rice left for Washington without talking to waiting reporters. Really, this is seriously humiliating for the US government. Bush and especially Rice must be livid. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/13 "2009-01-13T22:51:17Z")
Some piece missing here. How could it have been possible that Olmert didn’t already know how Rice was going to vote (or instructing to vote, whatever)? The story line seems to imply that Olmert found out at the last minute that State would support the resolution, and rushed to the phone. Anybody see this too, or am I the only guy home on derange? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/14 "2009-01-13T22:53:05Z")
D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/15 "2009-01-13T23:02:09Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Is he intending to inflame the stereotype that the other Middle East countries have of the USA/Isreali relationship? Why would you say “stereotype”? What other proof do you need beyond this article to stop calling it a sterotype when clearly that is the modus operandi? On another note, if this is not it, what would be the proof beyond doubt ? [SARCASTIC] Maybe if Mr. Olmert conferenced you in? [/SARCASTIC] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/16 "2009-01-13T23:11:29Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > OK, assuming that what Olmert meant was that Rice directed the UN ambassador to abstain, how reliable is Olmert? Has he a reputation for absolute honesty? MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Sorry. To answer your question, no, Ehud Olmert does not have a reputation for absolute honesty. Ehud Olmert has a reputation for being a smug, lying, arrogant, self-aggrandizing asshole. There’s a \*reason \*he has single-digit approval ratings, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/17 "2009-01-13T23:19:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To answer your question, no, Ehud Olmert does not have a reputation for absolute honesty. Ehud Olmert has a reputation for being a smug, lying, arrogant, self-aggrandizing asshole. There’s a \*reason \*he has single-digit approval ratings, you know? I don’t know. Talansky obviously figured he could talke Olmert’s words to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/18 "2009-01-13T23:24:13Z")
Now that’s what I call damning with faint praise. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/19 "2009-01-13T23:34:04Z")
Hey, if he’s not enough for you, there’s always Frank Lowy. I’m sure I can find all sorts of character witnesses for Olmert. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112/20 "2009-01-14T00:49:45Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > What other proof do you need beyond this article to stop calling it a sterotype when clearly that is the modus operandi? Clearly. Along those clear lines, for how many years has Jerusalem been Israel’s official capital and seat of government? For how many years has our embassy been located there? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-olmert-make-rice-change-un-vote/481112.md?page=2)