# Did ordinary Elizabethans understand Shakespeare's plays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671 "2011-11-02T19:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/41 "2011-11-03T18:57:43Z")
Thank you everyone for your answers and comments so far. I should point out that this _Hamlet_ wasn’t my first stab at Shakespeare. I studied three plays at school: - _Romeo & Juliet_, which we saw performed live. That was easy enough to follow, even if the dialogue didn’t make much sense to me. _Macbeth_, for which we watched the Roman Polanski film. This one was pretty confusing, and I really hated having to study it. _Midsummer Night’s Dream_, which we didn’t see performed. It didn’t make any sense to me at all; I couldn’t tell you what it was about. I wasn’t aware that Shakespeare wrote any comedies. Could anyone recommend a good film version that I could watch? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/42 "2011-11-03T19:22:37Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I wasn’t aware that Shakespeare wrote any comedies. Could anyone recommend a good film version that I could watch? [This version of _Much Ado About Nothing_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing_%281993_film%29) is a reasonably good adaption. It also helps to be aware that the title itself is a pun: “nothing” was slang for female genitalia. But the best way to gain an appreciation of Shakespeare’s comedies is to find the nearest Shakespeare festival. The actors generally do Shakespeare exclusively, know the material well, and can make it come to life, i.e., put the emphasis on the right words to make the innuendo clear. ETA: Heck, even _Hamlet_ has dirty jokes. “Do you think I speak of country matters?” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/43 "2011-11-03T19:30:57Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > _Midsummer Night’s Dream_, which we didn’t see performed. It didn’t make any sense to me at all; I couldn’t tell you what it was about. If you’d see _Midsummer Night’s Dream_ performed (well), you’d know it was a comedy. I think _Taming of the Shrew_ is his funniest, but I don’t know what movie version to recommend. The most famous (Elizabeth Taylor) version is missing a whole lot of the dialogue Shakespeare wrote. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/44 "2011-11-03T19:38:35Z")
I thought _Hamlet_ was a laff-riot. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/45 "2011-11-03T19:51:10Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > _Midsummer Night’s Dream_, which we didn’t see performed. It didn’t make any sense to me at all; I couldn’t tell you what it was about. If you didn’t see it performed, it wasn’t worth it. That show is made by Puck, so if you have a good Puck, and decent actors, you have it made, and it will make you laugh like a fool at the antics. I just saw the 1999 version of it, which was Ok, with lots of pretty girls, and Michelle Pfeiffer smoking up the screen as Titania. Funny, too…not the greatest, but worth a shot. Rupert Everett was Oberon and someone named Stanley Tucci as Puck, who was also very good. Calista Flockhart as Helena did wonderfully, hair all askew, and so cute. I thought Dominic West is far, far cuter than Christian Bale, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/46 "2011-11-03T19:59:47Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > [This version of _Much Ado About Nothing_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing_%281993_film%29) is a reasonably good adaption. I just watched the first ten minutes of that film on Youtube (the next part has been taken down due to copyright infringement), and didn’t understand a word of it. It seems horrendously dull, though. All I understood from that clip is “Visitors are coming, and everyone is excited”. But I have no idea where we are, or who any of the characters are. Perhaps subtitles in modern English would help me! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/47 "2011-11-03T20:08:49Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I wasn’t aware that Shakespeare wrote any comedies. Could anyone recommend a good film version that I could watch? [A Midsummer Night’s Dream](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063297/) [Twelfth Night](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081668/) [Fleetwood Macbeth](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptT_EkvIUzA)😛 The best version of _Shrew_ was the _Moonlighting_ episode “Atomic Shakespeare.” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/48 "2011-11-03T20:36:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That’s okay; I also recently characterize _Gilligan’s Island_ as being the American equivilent of McGoohan’s _The Prisoner_. And my position on _Casablanca_ as being not the bittersweet romance that it is commonly held as but rather a cynical film noir of deception and deceit matching anything written by Mamet has endured through much criticism. I maintain that _Hamlet_ is a farce of an ineffectual young prince who is utterly incapable of carrying out the simple assassination of his father’s murderer … I should like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/49 "2011-11-03T20:45:50Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I just watched the first ten minutes of that film on Youtube (the next part has been taken down due to copyright infringement), and didn’t understand a word of it. It seems horrendously dull, though. All I understood from that clip is “Visitors are coming, and everyone is excited”. But I have no idea where we are, or who any of the characters are. > > Perhaps subtitles in modern English would help me! 😉 The dialogue between Emma Thompson and the messenger is pretty amusing if you listen to it. But yeah, you’ve got to watch more than the first 10 minutes to understand the plot. But if you’re predetermined to hate anything Shakespeare related, there’s not much point, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/50 "2011-11-03T20:49:17Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I just watched the first ten minutes of that film on Youtube (the next part has been taken down due to copyright infringement), and didn’t understand a word of it. It seems horrendously dull, though. All I understood from that clip is “Visitors are coming, and everyone is excited”. But I have no idea where we are, or who any of the characters are. > > Perhaps subtitles in modern English would help me! 😉 I wouldn’t watch on youtube unless the sound is really good, which is unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/51 "2011-11-03T20:54:51Z")
You want comedy? Try ACT’s version[Taming of the Shrew](http://www.amazon.com/Taming-Shrew-Broadway-Theatre-Archive/dp/B00006G8HO). (It was filmed as a stage performance.) One scene is [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdqOHvcD-VU). ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/52 "2011-11-03T21:05:59Z")
> [@Sandra\_Battye](#): > > You want comedy? Try ACT’s version[Taming of the Shrew](http://www.amazon.com/Taming-Shrew-Broadway-Theatre-Archive/dp/B00006G8HO). (It was filmed as a stage performance.) One scene is [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdqOHvcD-VU). Wow, never thought I’d see Shakespeare combined with professional wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/53 "2011-11-03T21:10:30Z")
> [@Sandra\_Battye](#): > > You want comedy? Try ACT’s version[Taming of the Shrew](http://www.amazon.com/Taming-Shrew-Broadway-Theatre-Archive/dp/B00006G8HO). (It was filmed as a stage performance.) One scene is [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdqOHvcD-VU). Good grief! I couldn’t even finish that clip, the way those two were rattling off that gibberish faster and faster made we want to scream! I haven’t got a clue what the audience were laughing and clapping at. The guy’s body was nice to look at, though 😉 Maybe I sound like I’m being willfully obtuse. But I literally don’t understand a single sentence of this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/54 "2011-11-03T21:22:58Z")
[Atomic Shakespeare](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blZMk5MklF4&feature=related) [The Courtship](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9hg-TGO0E&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/55 "2011-11-03T21:40:10Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > turned it off about half-way through > [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I just watched the first ten minutes of that film > [@Kiyoshi](#): > > I couldn’t even finish that clip I think we’ve hit on the root of the problem… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/56 "2011-11-03T22:36:15Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’ve formally studied Shakespeare at the college level and yes, Shakespeare is pretty much at the level of modern “adult cartoons”. This was, literally, the Simpsons and South Park of the day. > > Take a look at one of those “annotated” versions of classic literature sometime. It’s surprising how much pop-culture parody and current events satire is in there. Of course, Shakespeare himself would swipe from earlier works. There wasn’t a lot of respect for copyright back then, and so when Shakespeare came across a good story from somewhere else he’d merrily steal it. Many of Shakepeare’s stories are really timeless stories that have been told for centuries and will be told for centuries more, varying here and there, the details changing, but the basic idea remaining the same. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/57 "2011-11-04T01:00:06Z")
For the comedies, or any funny lines, if you can understand Saturday Night Live now then you would have understood Shakespeare back then. Or even something like the Daily Show - I’ve only seen a few episodes, but so much of it is rooted in specific US current affairs humour that it passes me by. You have to remember, also, that rhyme was a lot commoner back then. It was basically a very useful way for actors - with so few written scripts between them that none survive - to remember lines as well as sounding cool, and people were still used to hearing people telling stories and reading poems round the fire. I mean, the novel as we know it didn’t even exist back then - it was mostly still stories in verse form. Not everybody was literate, after all, esp. not the poor people. They got their stories aurally. And the sword-fights and pratfalls (both of which happen in the tragedies and the comedies) would have taken up a lot of stage time. The talking, not so much. Plus, if you watch a film set in modern times using Elizabethan vernacular, then you lose a lot of the contextual clues. Baz Luhrmann did do this amazingly well with his R&J though, IMO. He made Post-Haste into a delivery company, for example. For Elizabethan audiences, sending something post-haste would have been like sending something by first class mail. It was just a phrase. In fifty years’ time, ‘first class mail’ will probably give kids a moment’s thought. Actually, it won’t take anywhere near that long. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > In fact, I generally find Shakespeare’s tragedies and histories much funnier than his comedies. The comedies tend to rely on over-broad humor for my tastes - but the tragedies and histories have great, sly moments. Richard Gloucester is _funny_, in a twisted way - and Edmund’s monologues in King Lear are masterpieces of sardonic wit. I want Alan Rickman to play Richard. I even checked IMDB, because that casting is so perfect that it could not have gone by-the-by, but it seems it has. He’d have exactly the right amount of sudden bile, dark humour, resigned cynicism and potential underlying goodness for Richard, and he even looks a bit like the portraits. > [@Marley23](#): > > I was going to scoff but I can see a little bit of a similarity there. But if I was going to draw parallels between Arrested Development and anything in Shakespeare it would be through GOB, who is a textbook example of the kind of pompous buffoon you see in lots of Shakespeare’s comedies, although that kind of character predates Shakesepare. If you really wanted to push your luck you could say Buster is sort a twist on the coward/soldier type, since he is both but is missing the key attribute of being a braggart. AD is very self-knowing and so are a lot of Shakespeare’s plays. It’s not a bad comparison at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/58 "2011-11-04T01:13:07Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Richard should be funny; he’s a self-categorized villain of the moustache-twisting variety. His famous opening soliloquy is nothing but boasting about what a dork he is, and how he’ll show everyone. > _Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace, > Have no delight to pass away the time, > Unless to spy my shadow in the sun > And descant on mine own deformity: > And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover, > To entertain these fair well-spoken days, > I am determined to prove a villain > And hate the idle pleasures of these days._ > _Richard III_ could be easily set in any high school with the class geek as the titular character. In fact, I’m surprised Hollywood hasn’t done just that. > > Stranger I have never seen that play in that manner. Thank you for expanding my appreciation for this. And thanks to everyone else. This is a great thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/59 "2011-11-04T01:22:49Z")
Since we’re going there, here is Famous Last Nerd’s “[One Minute Hamlet](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGPes8KWE0s)” (Actually a bit longer.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671/60 "2011-11-04T01:37:11Z")
RSC does [Hamlet](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvPdWcCHkxM&feature=related). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ordinary-elizabethans-understand-shakespeares-plays/601671.md?page=4)