# Did Pelosi just un-invite Trump from the State of the Union? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 16, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898 "2019-01-16T22:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/301 "2019-01-18T16:30:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I said that within the purview of what are executive powers, he has the sole and final say so. So why hasn’t he fired Mueller himself? If your point is that he’s legally allowed to do whatever he’s legally allowed to do, well, there’s no real argument there. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/302 "2019-01-18T16:44:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So why hasn’t he fired Mueller himself? > > If your point is that he’s legally allowed to do whatever he’s legally allowed to do, well, there’s no real argument there. It is undisputed that he has the power to fire Mueller. I think his cabinet has talked him out of it. That is not my point. My point was in response to the suggestion that Pelosi and Trump are constitutionally equal. Even if we assume that the Executive and the Legislative branches are completely co-equal, then we cannot say that the person who has absolute authority over one branch is constitutionally equal to someone in the other branch who has far less than absolute authority over that branch. I know it pains you to say that Pelosi was wrong, but this point is so non-debatable that I cannot believe anything is arguing to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/303 "2019-01-18T16:47:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But once it is determined that the power is executive, it is the President’s call to make. Also wrong. Are you sure you’re a lawyer? The thing that’s tripping up the Census question isn’t the Constitution, according to the district judge; it’s the Administrative Procedure Act. And the argument the judge is making in his decision isn’t that the Executive can’t add that question. It’s that it can’t just go around making those decisions arbitrarily. The law places requirements and limitations on how the Executive makes many of its decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/304 "2019-01-18T16:50:57Z")
Pelosi said something that was not true? Guess she needs to say another 6000 false statements to match Trump. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/305 "2019-01-18T16:54:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is undisputed that he has the power to fire Mueller. I think his cabinet has talked him out of it. > > That is not my point. My point was in response to the suggestion that Pelosi and Trump are constitutionally equal. Even if we assume that the Executive and the Legislative branches are completely co-equal, then we cannot say that the person who has absolute authority over one branch is constitutionally equal to someone in the other branch who has far less than absolute authority over that branch. > > I know it pains you to say that Pelosi was wrong, but this point is so non-debatable that I cannot believe anything is arguing to the contrary. It’s an incredibly silly argument. For all we know Pelosi was saying that the constitution considers all Americans equal. Or that every citizen has an equal vote. Or whatever. Also, it doesn’t matter. Not when the groper/toddler-in-chief is “governing” by tantrum, the Senate is enabling him, many folks are working without pay or not working at all, and only the House is actually taking action to end the shutdown. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/306 "2019-01-18T17:18:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … For all we know Pelosi was saying that the constitution considers all Americans equal. Or that every citizen has an equal vote. Or whatever. … The reporting on the matter was: > [@](#): > > … > > **Asked if she considers herself Mr. Trump’s equal, she replied, “The Constitution does.”** She frowned at the memory of a dinner at the White House last year when men talked over her, and she asked, “Doesn’t anybody listen to a woman in the room?” > > “Hopefully that will become a thing of the past now that we have so many women in Congress — and with the gavel,” Ms. Pelosi said. “The gavel makes a big difference.” [source](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/nancy-pelosi-house-speaker.html) I think it’s pretty obvious she wasn’t just talking in some philosophical all-men-are-created-equal sense. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/307 "2019-01-18T17:23:37Z")
So what? Are you going to take her to court over a turn of phrase when talking about the new Democratic House majority? What do you see as the likely results of this gotcha ya that you’ve so deftly uncovered? Will she be removed from the speakership? Arrested? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/308 "2019-01-18T17:27:41Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So what? Are you going to take her to court over a turn of phrase when talking about the new Democratic House majority? What do you see as the likely results of this gotcha ya that you’ve so deftly uncovered? Will she be removed from the speakership? Arrested? No, we’ll have a laugh at her expense, and some liberals will get their panties in a twist over it. I consider it roughly on par with the various posts about Trump’s typos. Neither one is exactly an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/309 "2019-01-18T17:32:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, we’ll have a laugh at her expense, and some liberals will get their panties in a twist over it. I consider it roughly on par with the various posts about Trump’s typos. Neither one is exactly an impeachable offense. So it means nothing? Right. So can we all consider this dropped then? Unless you want to get into a back and forth of ridiculous things said, in which case I’m going to go get some covfefe and hamberders because at last count Trump is up to 7,645 false or misleading statements as of Dec. 30th. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/21/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/?noredirect=on&utm\_term=.87a6394bf9c9](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/21/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.87a6394bf9c9) Nice attempt to pivot to “typos” for Trump as if everything he says is true he just misspells a word sometimes.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/310 "2019-01-18T17:42:52Z")
**Airbeck** , Yesterday, [Senator Lindsay Graham called Pelosi’s letter on the SOTU (the original topic of this thread) a “sophomoric response”](https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1085990336462315520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1085990336462315520%7Ctwgr%5E363937393b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheweek.com%2Fspeedreads%2F818407%2Fgop-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-canceling-pelosis-overseas-trip-sophomoric-inappropriate). Do you more-or-less agree that it was a rather childish / petty / juvenile / etc act? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/311 "2019-01-18T17:43:56Z")
No. Why do I give a shit what Lindsay Graham has to say. That is a political response. You’ve already made clear that you don’t give those much weight right? Or is that only for political responses from one side? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/312 "2019-01-18T17:47:10Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > No. Why do I give a shit what Lindsay Graham has to say. That is a political response. You’ve already made clear that you don’t give those much weight right? Or is that only for political responses from one side? Senator Graham called both Nancy’s suggestion to cancel the SOTU and President Trump’s cancelling of the Dems CODEL “sophomoric”. I’m not so much interested in what you think about Senator Graham, as I am interested in hearing your honest opinion about Pelosi’s actions. If you don’t think it was petty / “sophomoric”, do you think it was a brilliant bit of hard-nosed politicking? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/313 "2019-01-18T17:47:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > **Airbeck** , > > Yesterday, [Senator Lindsay Graham called Pelosi’s letter on the SOTU (the original topic of this thread) a “sophomoric response”](https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1085990336462315520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1085990336462315520%7Ctwgr%5E363937393b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheweek.com%2Fspeedreads%2F818407%2Fgop-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-canceling-pelosis-overseas-trip-sophomoric-inappropriate). Do you more-or-less agree that it was a rather childish / petty / juvenile / etc act? Stop avoiding my question, Ditka. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/314 "2019-01-18T17:49:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Senator Graham called both Nancy’s suggestion to cancel the SOTU and President Trump’s cancelling of the Dems CODEL “sophomoric”. I’m not so much interested in what you think about Senator Graham, as I am interested in hearing your honest opinion about Pelosi’s actions. If you don’t think it was petty / “sophomoric”, do you think it was a brilliant bit of hard-nosed politicking? I think Pelosi was operating on the best advice given her by the Secretary of Homeland Defense, Kristjen Nielsen, as stated in the letter. Now answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/315 "2019-01-18T17:52:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Stop avoiding my question, Ditka. > [@JohnT](#): > > … Now answer my question. Better brace yourself for some more disappointment. [YamatoTwinkie made a polite and reasonable request](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21438173#post21438173). I intend to honor it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/316 "2019-01-18T17:53:13Z")
😃 Thanks, that is really all we needed. Appreciate the concession - you’re all right, Ditka! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/317 "2019-01-18T18:15:46Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is undisputed that he has the power to fire Mueller. Hoo boy. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I think his cabinet has talked him out of it. Hokay, cite? > [@](#): > > I know it pains you to say that Pelosi was wrong, but this point is so non-debatable that I cannot believe anything is arguing to the contrary. Says the guy who slept through Con Law class. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/318 "2019-01-18T18:23:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is undisputed that he has the power to fire Mueller. I think his cabinet has talked him out of it. It most certainly is disputed. That said the current supreme court probably tips towards a unitary executive but as of now it is not a decided question. There is a reason Trump ran Sessions out. He wants to get someone else to fire Mueller. If Trump could have simply fired Mueller on his own he would have done so long ago. He hasn’t because everyone remembers what happened when Nixon tried to have special prosecutor Archibald Cox fired. That did not go well for Nixon and remains as proof that this is not a decided question. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/319 "2019-01-18T18:29:40Z")
[Nancy Pelosi shifts reasoning on State of Union speech delay](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/17/pelosi-shifts-reasoning-state-union-speech-shutdow/) > [@](#): > > House Speaker Nancy Pelosi renewed her call to postpone the State of the Union address but changed her reasons Thursday, saying her worry isn’t that the Secret Service can’t do its job but rather that they shouldn’t be asked to do it while they’re not getting paid. > > … It seems that she realizes her professed “security concerns” were not well-founded. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/320 "2019-01-18T18:31:28Z")
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