# Did Pelosi just un-invite Trump from the State of the Union? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 16, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898 "2019-01-16T22:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/381 "2019-01-19T22:06:12Z")
That’s not what I’m thinking. What I’m thinking is that some people in this country are rational, and some are irrational, and that as a result, some value power for its own sake, and some instead value it as a way to make the world better. Which group are you in? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/382 "2019-01-19T22:12:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s not what I’m thinking. What I’m thinking is that some people in this country are rational, and some are irrational, and that as a result, some value power for its own sake, and some instead value it as a way to make the world better. Which group are you in? I think people should use power responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/383 "2019-01-19T22:20:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I think people should use power responsibly. Donald Trump is, by his very nature, incapable of responsibility. (No need to discuss his use of power specifically.) So I presume you’re in favor of his removal from office at Congress’ earliest convenience. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/384 "2019-01-19T22:25:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Donald Trump is, by his very nature, incapable of responsibility. (No need to discuss his use of power specifically.) So I presume you’re in favor of his removal from office at Congress’ earliest convenience. 🙂 Not at all. Still need to fill Ginsburg’s seat. Plus I don’t think removing Trump is responsible or good politics. 2020 is coming soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/385 "2019-01-19T22:30:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not at all. Still need to fill Ginsburg’s seat. Plus I don’t think removing Trump is responsible or good politics. 2020 is coming soon enough. Serious question: if Trump had indeed directed Cohen to lie to Congress, and the charge is well substantiated, would you support his removal from office? I’m not interested in debating the news from yesterday, just a question of your level of support for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/386 "2019-01-19T22:33:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Serious question: if Trump had indeed directed Cohen to lie to Congress, and the charge is well substantiated, would you support his removal from office? > > I’m not interested in debating the news from yesterday, just a question of your level of support for Trump. Seeing as I didn’t vote for Trump and think he’s a bit of a clown I’m not sure if I support Trump per se. I do support Republican control of the Senate and presidency because that leads to control of the courts which unfortunately we have allowed to become too powerful. It’s a conundrum. Removal for Cohen stuff? I haven’t really been following that tbh. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/387 "2019-01-19T22:50:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not at all. Still need to fill Ginsburg’s seat. Plus I don’t think removing Trump is responsible or good politics. Yeah, didn’t figure you meant it very much. 🙂 > [@](#): > > 2020 is coming soon enough. We’re less than halfway through his term. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/388 "2019-01-19T22:53:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Seeing as I didn’t vote for Trump and think he’s a bit of a clown I’m not sure if I support Trump per se. I do support Republican control of the Senate and presidency because that leads to control of the courts which unfortunately we have allowed to become too powerful. It’s a conundrum. > > Removal for Cohen stuff? I haven’t really been following that tbh. If I’m reading you right, you don’t really like Trump, but you would have to think about whether he should be removed for ordering someone to lie to Congress to cover up his (Trump’s) connections to Russia? I’m not trying to misrepresent you; I’m asking if that’s a fair summary of what you posted. I think it is, but I’m not totally sure. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/389 "2019-01-19T23:10:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If I’m reading you right, you don’t really like Trump, but you would have to think about whether he should be removed for ordering someone to lie to Congress to cover up his (Trump’s) connections to Russia? > > I’m not trying to misrepresent you; I’m asking if that’s a fair summary of what you posted. I think it is, but I’m not totally sure. As I said I don’t know enough to comment. But with regards to presidents or other politicians lying? That’s what they do. Do I like it? No. But there is a lot I don’t like and cannot hope to change. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/390 "2019-01-19T23:17:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > As I said I don’t know enough to comment. But with regards to presidents or other politicians lying? That’s what they do. Do I like it? No. But there is a lot I don’t like and cannot hope to change. Thank you for the response. ETA: would you have supported removal of Clinton or Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/391 "2019-01-20T00:23:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Thank you for the response. > > ETA: would you have supported removal of Clinton or Nixon? A younger more partisan version of myself might have jumped on the bandwagon concerning Clinton. Actual perjury is a serious problem. At this point in time, I think the constant persecution of Clinton was problematic. I also have a problem with Garland never having a vote. I think we have become hyper partisan which leads to existential vulnerabilities. Nixon? Yeah. That watergate nonsense meant impeachment proceedings were reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/392 "2019-01-20T00:34:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > A younger more partisan version of myself might have jumped on the bandwagon concerning Clinton. Actual perjury is a serious problem. At this point in time, I think the constant persecution of Clinton was problematic. I also have a problem with Garland never having a vote. I think we have become hyper partisan which leads to existential vulnerabilities. > . A ‘serious problem’. ‘Problematic’. ‘A problem’. So multiple problems. But none of these are problems that you won’t tolerate. Please correct me if I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/393 "2019-01-20T00:40:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not at all. Still need to fill Ginsburg’s seat. Plus I don’t think removing Trump is responsible or good politics. 2020 is coming soon enough. You support criminality provided you personally benefit from it? And then you wonder why people have a low opinion of Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/394 "2019-01-20T01:43:24Z")
Should we rename threads when they stray a certain distance from the topic? Or maybe we design one of those “Whole New Look!” labels: **New and Improved**! \* Was\* Pelosi and Trump, _NOW_ it’s just **octopus**! Yes, dear posters, it’s yet another thread where we foolishly keep poking him with the Stick of Knowledge, only to be thwarted by the Tentacles of Contradiction. Come on in, the fallacies are fine! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/395 "2019-01-20T01:52:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You support criminality provided you personally benefit from it? And then you wonder why people have a low opinion of Republicans? I’m against criminality. I’m against Trump. And most of the time I’m against punishment. I think low punishment societies have less criminality. Look at Illinois. Governor after governor was punished, and the next one was still corrupt. If Bill Clinton had been removed from office, would DJT be a better president? YMMV, but I think this is laughable. Did Nixon being forced out make Trump better? Now, you could argue that removing Trump from office isn’t so much a punishment as a removal, of one individual, from an environment were there is great temptation to commit misdeeds. Looking for an analogy, maybe Bernie Madoff shouldn’t have been locked up, but at least he should have lost his investment advisor license. That’s my view. But the problem, in the DJT case, is that the replacement for Trump isn’t an average President. It’s [Mike Pence](https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-President-Truth-About-Pence-ebook/dp/B07DHLFQQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547948723&sr=8-1&keywords=mike+pence). I read the book just linked, and Pence sounds like a much worse than average president. And I think that if Trump is removed from office this year, the GOP chances next year are increased. There is no safe way to get out from under the risks that come with having elected a President who talks like a dictator. But I think trying to vote him out next year has the best risk/reward profile. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/396 "2019-01-20T03:06:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You support criminality provided you personally benefit from it? And then you wonder why people have a low opinion of Republicans? That’s some creative reading and creative assertions you have. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/397 "2019-01-20T03:21:27Z")
It’s apparently been a creative thread on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/398 "2019-01-20T05:06:18Z")
Meanwhile, back on topic. The Republican Speaker of the Michigan House of Reps has invited trump to come to Lansing and give the SOTU speech there. > **[Michigan speaker invites Trump to give State of the Union in Lansing](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/01/18/donald-trump-state-union-lansing/2615995002/)** > > Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield says Donald Trump can give State of Union in Lansing if he likes. What a grandstanding maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/399 "2019-01-20T06:38:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s some creative reading and creative assertions you have. I apologize for being too blunt in my entirely accurate description of your statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898/400 "2019-01-20T21:21:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Also wrong. Are you sure you’re a lawyer? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Says the guy who slept through Con Law class. Do not personalize your arguments in this fashion. If you feel you must, the Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-pelosi-just-un-invite-trump-from-the-state-of-the-union/827898.md?page=21)