# Did people love obese women in the past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920 "2012-07-01T18:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/21 "2012-07-02T00:12:53Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The cynic on me notes that there has always been one constant ideal in feminine fuckability: and it’s the woman just this side of pedophilia. Probably a side effect of human pair bonding; if you are going to be with one female for your & her entire life, then it makes sense to pick the youngest one possible since she’ll be fertile longest. A species like chimps that doesn’t pair bond also has no concern over age beyond “are they fertile”. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/22 "2012-07-02T01:05:18Z")
dang, at least half the people i see out in the great unwashed public are obese, seems to be plenty of loving going around, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/23 "2012-07-02T01:11:48Z")
> [@Standarduser](#): > > Is it a myth, or a fact? Well, my lovely and long-suffering wife has dropped more than ninety pounds over the past three years. She had maintained a very steady weight from the we were dating, so I do offer myself as an example of someone who did love an obese woman in the past. We now represent a real-life sitcom example of the funny-looking pudgy schlub of a husband with an inexplicably hot wife. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/24 "2012-07-02T01:18:31Z")
It wasn’t just women. Let’s forget obese. Some excess fat was seen as attractive in many cultures because is signaled affluence. Look at the Buddha that is revered in southeast Asia. He has a huge stomach. The Indian Buddha is much thinner for whatever reason. When I was traveling by bicycle in southeast Asia I had started a middle aged bulge. There were people that approached me and some were so forward as to rub my abdomen. I’d just smile. That bulge that I hate was to them a sign of good luck and affluence. They wanted some of it to rub off on them. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/25 "2012-07-02T02:02:51Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > It wasn’t just women. Let’s forget obese. Some excess fat was seen as attractive in many cultures because is signaled affluence. > > Look at the Buddha that is revered in southeast Asia. He has a huge stomach. The Indian Buddha is much thinner for whatever reason. > > When I was traveling by bicycle in southeast Asia I had started a middle aged bulge. There were people that approached me and some were so forward as to rub my abdomen. I’d just smile. That bulge that I hate was to them a sign of good luck and affluence. They wanted some of it to rub off on them. The classical fat, jolly Buddha is not the real dude. He’s a buddhist monk called Budhai. Skinny Buddha is much closer to the real guy. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/26 "2012-07-02T03:09:56Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The classical fat, jolly Buddha is not the real dude. He’s a buddhist monk called Budhai. > Skinny Buddha is much closer to the real guy. Right - the chubby guy is _a_ Buddha, but not _the_ Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. The jolly chubby guy is Budhai, aka Hotei, “cloth sack,” the Laughing Buddha. The thin Indian representation is Siddartha Gautama. Budhai is a symbol of happiness, luck and contentment; he’s a poor monk with all his belongings in a bag, but he’s fat and happy. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/27 "2012-07-02T03:43:52Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Let’s forget obese. Then let’s forget this thread, too. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/28 "2012-07-02T03:45:45Z")
Some people like fat chicks, some like thin. The smart ones like women for who they are beyond their shape, age, skin color or the current fashion. IMO, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/29 "2012-07-02T03:47:02Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > The smart ones like women for who they are beyond their shape, age, skin color or the current fashion. nm ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/30 "2012-07-02T03:56:50Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > nm No, Ambivalid. I am an imperfect, but smart, woman. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/31 "2012-07-02T04:25:04Z")
Porn from the dawn of film featured women who were much heavier than is the current “ideal”. Most of the “French postcards” I’ve seen featured similar women. Even Muybridge’s motion study women, who were presumably professional artist’s models, had a little paunch. None of these would be considered, in a rational world, “obese”. But they would be via the BMI. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/32 "2012-07-02T04:34:56Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > None of these would be considered, in a rational world, “obese”. But they would be via the BMI. I probably should shut up, but I don’t think this is true. None of the “French postcard” women looked like they would qualify as “obese” by the BMI numbers. “Overweight,” yes. “Obese,” no. We’re talking about 192 pounds for a 5’ 7" women to be considered obese. There’s no way the average French postcard woman is in that range. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/33 "2012-07-02T04:38:34Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > nor is the-fatter-the-better. . [“gavage” of women](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18141550/ns/health-health_care/t/mauritania-struggles-love-fat-women/) in Mauritania ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/34 "2012-07-02T04:59:38Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The cynic on me notes that there has always been one constant ideal in feminine fuckability: and it’s the woman just this side of pedophilia. Complete nonsense. Different men look for many different thing sexually. For one example; big tits are very popular among men, this in no way supports pedophillia. Your statemant is patently false, insulting to men, and evidence of your ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/35 "2012-07-02T05:03:39Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > No, Ambivalid. I am an imperfect, but smart, woman. I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly be talking about. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/36 "2012-07-02T05:13:50Z")
I don’t know if this is considered obese, but in China’s Tang Dynasty, “It was fashionable for women to be full-figured (or plump).” [Tang dynasty - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_dynasty#Tang_women) ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/37 "2012-07-02T08:34:23Z")
Even at the time, Rubens artistic subjects were notable, so much so that apparently the Dutch equivalent of the term “Rubenesque” was coined as a euphemism in Ruben’s heyday. See Rembrandt’s work for a completely different subject style from a contemporary artist. I don’t know if any art historians would agree with my interpretation, but I’ve always seen Baroque art as a combination of two influences: a reflection of the artists’ patrons and their tastes, and a reaction away from both the classical ideals of antiquity and the neoclassical influences of the Renaissance. Classical Greek and Roman sculpture and paintings were generally idealized versions of their subjects. Like our modern movie photography of actors and actresses, they tried to make something look its best, better than normal reality. Renaissance art adopted those ideals and then developed new ideas diverging from them, but were heavily influenced by Platonic ideals of beauty. How is this related to the fat chicks in Rubens’ paintings? Baroque style is about excessive detail and fanciful and exuberant themes. I think it was a reaction against the simple beauty of the preceding art movements. Part of that was the naturalistic yet exaggerated depiction of the people Rubens used as his subjects; primarily upper class men and women. While they may not have objected to Rubens if he’d depicted them as an idealized person, some men might have complained that they were muscled like a laborer, or tanned like a field hand. The women may have complained that the result was too sylph-like, or made them look like country milk-maids instead of upper class women. Rubens probably painted pretty much what he saw; flabby middle-aged idle rich who ate too much crappy food. Refined sugar started to be introduced around this time, but I’m sure that’s a coincidence. Of course, it’s also not hard to see that Rubens probably was a bit of a chubby chaser considering how…intent he was on this particular body type. But one thing is pretty clear, Rubens’ work was an outlier even at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/38 "2012-07-02T11:43:58Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Even at the time, Rubens artistic subjects were notable, so much so that apparently the Dutch equivalent of the term “Rubenesque” was coined as a euphemism in Ruben’s heyday. What is the Dutch equivalent of “Rubenesque”? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/39 "2012-07-02T13:06:05Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Complete nonsense. > > Different men look for many different thing sexually. > > For one example; big tits are very popular among men, this in no way supports pedophillia. > > Your statemant is patently false, insulting to men, and evidence of your ignorance. Where do men go for the women they want? Brothels What kind of women are found in most brothels? I have been to the Philippines and Tijuana with thousands of young men with money in their pockets. There are some ugly things I wish I were truly ignorant of. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920/40 "2012-07-02T13:19:30Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Even at the time, Rubens artistic subjects were notable, so much so that apparently the Dutch equivalent of the term “Rubenesque” was coined as a euphemism in Ruben’s heyday. See Rembrandt’s work for a completely different subject style from a contemporary artist. > > I don’t know if any art historians would agree with my interpretation, but I’ve always seen Baroque art as a combination of two influences: a reflection of the artists’ patrons and their tastes, and a reaction away from both the classical ideals of antiquity and the neoclassical influences of the Renaissance. > > Classical Greek and Roman sculpture and paintings were generally idealized versions of their subjects. Like our modern movie photography of actors and actresses, they tried to make something look its best, better than normal reality. Renaissance art adopted those ideals and then developed new ideas diverging from them, but were heavily influenced by Platonic ideals of beauty. > > How is this related to the fat chicks in Rubens’ paintings? Baroque style is about excessive detail and fanciful and exuberant themes. I think it was a reaction against the simple beauty of the preceding art movements. Part of that was the naturalistic yet exaggerated depiction of the people Rubens used as his subjects; primarily upper class men and women. While they may not have objected to Rubens if he’d depicted them as an idealized person, some men might have complained that they were muscled like a laborer, or tanned like a field hand. The women may have complained that the result was too sylph-like, or made them look like country milk-maids instead of upper class women. > > Rubens probably painted pretty much what he saw; flabby middle-aged idle rich who ate too much crappy food. Refined sugar started to be introduced around this time, but I’m sure that’s a coincidence. Of course, it’s also not hard to see that Rubens probably was a bit of a chubby chaser considering how…intent he was on this particular body type. But one thing is pretty clear, Rubens’ work was an outlier even at that time. Many of Rubens’ later paintings were of his wife, Helene Foyurment, who was also his niece, and almost 40 years his junior. He loved painting and sketching her. I think his love of plump female subjects precedes his marriage, though, so I thionk Rubens liked 'em plump. As for Buddha, not only is the original ideal thin, there is actually a category of “starving Buddhas” in classical Buddhist art, where he is skeletally thin. There are several examples in Alice Getty’s book _The Gods of Northern Buddhism_ – and none of the “fat jolly Buddha”. Incidentally, although everyomne here is giving the same story about the Fat Buddha, I’ve heard or read three different ones over the years, with no clear consensus as to the true origin. There have been many periods of Fat art. Have a look at the miniature portraits of Moghul leaders [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-people-love-obese-women-in-the-past/626920.md?page=3)