This could explain the scarcity of lightweight men’s clothes, even in summertime. Linen, seersucker and the like were probably relative luxury items in those days due to the high maintenance - and the factoid I remember reading somewhere that the average man owned only 2 suits at a time, so they had to be appropriate for year-round wear.
Seersucker wasn’t even available in the US until 1930 (this per Brooks Brothers, who claim they introduced it) - and for years afterward this and linen weren’t acceptable business wear outside the deep south.
BTW, elmwood, I would friggn KILL to be able to dress like those guys in the 1936 Spiegel catalog - even every now and then. The cut of the coats especially, is unlike anything available today.
I wonder how much impact was the introduction of synthetic fabrics (starting in the 1940’s)? Face it wool is pretty heavy and hot…but back in the 20’s and 30’s, only the very rich could afford lightweight fabrics like silk and rayon. Plus, clothes now are relatively cheap-people of modest means can afford a lot of clothes-ask any teenage girl. So dressing up isn’t required, and in the summer, not required.
Of course, sloppy dress goes with sloppy habits-which is why language has gotten so coarse and vulgar.
I’m pretty sure the Spanish army wore seesucker uniforms in the Spanish-American War. The caption on this page: inf.esp.htm translates to:
“Note: The infantry mainly used uniforms of “crude dril” (of thread or cotton) and the one of “rayadillo” or thousand ray. For protection of the head they used straw hat, cap or cap.”
Is “rayadillo” the same as seersucker? I dunno, but seersucker was developed a long time ago in India, and the Spanish had plenty of time to try it.
Of course in this same war the US went in wearing wool. The regular army veterans had been wearing wool, including union suit underwear, since their original issue in boot camp, so they were acclimated to it (albeit in the hot but dry Southwest, not the humid tropics). The volunteers suffered terribly to wear it.
Unlike the social conventions of the OP, overdressing in the military was even more stupidly enforced. When the French invaded Algeria in the 1830’s, the officers wouldn’t dream of allowing the men to take off their heavy wool coats, since that would be the first step into dissovling into a rabble. So they died like Mayflies of heat exhaustion.
Perhaps because people quote it by itself, while Kaufman wrote it as part of a long stream of jokes, next one being Groucho stumbing over how he removed the tusks - of course in Alabama the Tuscaloosa. So the short “I don’t know” is more of a contrast .
Actually, from reading all his collaborations in the Library of America volume of his plays, I bet Morrie Ryskind wrote that line anyhow.
Paul Fussell noted in his book *Wartime! that soldiers in Patton’s 3rd Army were required to wear a tie w/ uniform in theatre, in combat. Fines were extracted from enlisted men for infractions like haircuts outside the regulation, say $50 which was not an inconsiderable sum in those days, esp. for a conscript. Somebody mentioned that the swearing which is so common today is a result of bad manners/sloppy dress. Fussell insists it is a coarsening of society that is a direct result of the various and numerous wars the U.S. has participated in the last century or so. Swearing and profanity is still very much a part of military life, and it can be a hard habit to break. He spends a fair amount talking about the all purpose word of “fuck”, which of course can be used in many different ways. One interesting example - a British airplane mechanic is working on an engine, trying to make do without proper replacement parts, and a key component horks, something breaks. He exclaims “Fuck! The fucking fuckers fucking fucked!”
I’ve asked my (vintage late 1930s) folks about all this, and they say that it actually helped a lot–there was little fighting about clothes in school, little one-upmanship and all, since everybody had to wear jackets and ties/shritwaist dresses. The clothes came off and you changed to play clothes, like knickers and plain dresses, when you came home, thereby demarcating school and play time. When you were in your school clothes you behaved in a certain way and would not screw around. Kids would be taken shopping once a year and had very, very few clothes–Mom got through most of high school with three skirts, one crinoline, and about ten blouses total, although she did have one fancy dress for dances and dates. Of course, girlfriends would swap clothes and you could also get hand-me-downs unless you were the oldest.
When I look at their yearbooks I’m impressed with how neat and adult the kids looked. And these were poor working class kids, mixed in race and religion–my Dad’s school, Cardinal Hayes, even had some nice Jewish boys in it because it was such a great school! ;j
I’ve always watched old episodes of I Love Lucy and wished women could still dress like that and not get stared at as if they were out of their heads. Hell, I’d still wear dresses like that even if I got stared at, if they still made em. sigh
It took me a long time to learn to avoid synthetic materials like the plague, a trace of sweat and they are soaking, and stinking a few hours later.
If you have watched Spanish, French or Greek peasants working in what looks like winter wear, then it is pretty obvious that it is not modesty or fashion that keeps them well clad - they have their own micro climate under the layers.
I can remember seeing photos of each year’s graduating class at a northeast graduate school. Until around 1969 they’re all in dark suits and ties (the occasional woman was probably in a dark skirt and dark blouse). I think it was 1970 or 1971 when the class was dark suits and ties except one guy with without a jacket and with a giant bright wild tie (might have been a wide, wide, wide US flag tie). That was it; next year was mixed and and every year after that was jeans and T-shirts universally.
I bet the dark suits were a rule imposed by the school. Then in '70 there was one joker who decided to flaunt the rule and said he would sue if they didn’t let him in the picture. The big US flag tie is the give away. He would have claimed that as an American he had the rights and freedom to dress as he pleased. The school dropped the rule and the change was inevitable.
Seersucker? Not on my salary! I’d have to settle for Nearsucker.
Maybe we should go back to powdered wigs while we’re at it? :dubious:
Personnally I enjoy the fact that I don’t need to wear a blazer every time I go to buy groceries. I dress for work. For going out. The rest of the time I wear t-shirts and cargo shorts or jeans. That’s how I roll.
Somethings that no one has mentioned in this thread:
Modern standards of hygiene - Today we are accustomed to bathing every day and not encountering the body odor of others. This is a rather recent development. In the “old days” one would wear the same suit every day. One feature of the layering, in addition to the desire to look respectable, was to mask body odor somewhat.
I was at a football game once with a friend and some kid tried to give us the whole “people died for this country” schpeel. After wondering if he was smoking the whacky tobacky we finally realized my friend had a had on. No malice was intended, he just forgot he had it on.
I would submit that the machinists were just dressed for the camera. Getting a tie caught in a piece of spinning machinery will absolutely ruin your whole day.
Dad was a '38 vintage. Him and his brothers got suits with short trousers when they started school (same age as 1st grade in the US); compulsory school was 4 years only. After 4th grade, you either went into a trade, factory, whatever or started your “basic baccalaurate”, which was 4 more years. Boys got their first long-legged suit at 14 (my Dad’s and his brother’s were their graduation presents). Someone who had a “basic baccalaurate” could go on to the “advanced baccalaurate”, which allowed entry into college, or to other training.
Mom had the basic followed by teacher’s school. At age 16 (her Bday is in October) she was teaching a “mixed ages” class: 23 kids ages 5-10; all the boys wore suits to class.
Often the same suit would get passed from a brother to the next. My paternals were well-off enough to pay for college for those of their children who wanted it, but there’s pictures where you can see that Dad is wearing a suit… which is worn by Uncle Javier in this older pic… and by Uncle José María in this older one (hey, in this one it still has long legs)… and by Grandfather in yet another one!