# Did Porter Goss Jump, Or Was he Pushed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589 "2006-05-05T20:08:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/1 "2006-05-05T20:08:29Z")
[Porter Goss resigns as CIA chief](http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/goss.resignation/) > [@](#): > > No reason was given for Goss’ resignation, but the White House has been in the midst of an administration shakeup since Josh Bolten took over as White House chief of staff. > > According to Reuters, Goss’ resignation was based on a “mutual understanding” between Bush, national intelligence director John Negroponte and Goss, a senior Bush administration official said. As surely as nature abhors a vacuum, [the blogs are buzzing](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/27/212534/995) with possible connections between Goss and the allegations of hookers and hotel rooms swirling around convicted Congressman Randy Cunningham: > [@](#): > > This morning the WSJ broke the story that FBI investigators are looking into a new aspect to the Duke Cunningham story - the defense contractors who bribed him also threw him wild parties and arranged for prostitutes and hotel rooms. > > The WSJ also said that the FBI is looking into whether these same contractors arranged for prostitutes for other members of congress. Ken Silverstein at Harper’s Magazine has also[reported tantalizing information last week:](http://www.harpers.org/sb-red-lights-on-capitol-hill.html): > [@](#): > > I’ve learned from a well-connected source that those under intense scrutiny by the FBI are current and former lawmakers on Defense and Intelligence comittees – including one person who now holds a powerful intelligence post. Or is it just guilt by association with his hand picked deputy, “Dusty” Foggo: > [@](#): > > The CIA inspector general has opened an investigation into the spy agency’s executive director, Kyle “Dusty” Foggo, and his connections to two defense contractors accused of bribing a member of Congress and Pentagon officials. So has the culture of corruption in the Bush administration claimed another victim, or does Goss just want to spend more time with his family? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/2 "2006-05-05T20:25:03Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > does Goss just want to spend more time with his family? -His family of hookers. 😉 > [@](#): > > Goss told Bush: “I believe the agency is on a very even keel, sailing well, I honestly believe that we have improved dramatically.” [http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/goss.resignation/](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/goss.resignation/) What sort of fools does he take us for? > [@](#): > > Asked on MSNBC why Goss really quit, The Washington Post’s Dana Priest said, “You’re going to have to wait for the morning paper for that. But I’ll tell you, the agency is not on an even keel,” as Goss claimed today. “His tenure has been very rough. He has not mended fences…Staffers he brought over with him [from Congress] created ill will with senior operatives who ended up resigning,” she added. [http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article\_display.jsp?vnu\_content\_id=1002463645](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002463645) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/3 "2006-05-05T21:28:47Z")
\One-stop shopping for all your news about Hookergate at the Watergate\, including the Porter Goss angle. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/4 "2006-05-05T21:29:51Z")
[One-stop shopping for all your news about Hookergate at the Watergate](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/cats/hookergate/), including the Porter Goss angle. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/5 "2006-05-06T04:13:25Z")
[Bush Ends Goss’s Stormy Tenure By Forcing Him Out as CIA Chief](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/05/AR2006050500937.html) > [@](#): > > senior administration officials said Bush had lost confidence in Goss, 67, almost from the beginning and decided months ago to replace him. In what was described as a difficult meeting in April with Negroponte, Goss was told to prepare to leave by May, according to several officials with knowledge of the conversation. This article _is_ in the Washington Post, so it’s probably following the official administration line on the story. If Goss’ departure were long planned, one would expect a ready replacement, and at least _some_ warnoing to affected departments, [such as Defense](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/05/cia-backstory/). ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/6 "2006-05-06T04:35:24Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > If Goss’ departure were long planned, one would expect a ready replacement, and at least _some_ warnoing to affected departments, [such as Defense](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/05/cia-backstory/). And that has occurred … > [@](#): > > President Bush has settled on Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden as his choice for CIA director, and an announcement is planned for Monday, senior administration officials told CNN late Friday. Hayden, 61, is the principal deputy to National Intelligence Director John Negroponte. Source: [CNN.com - Officials: General to head CIA - May 5, 2006](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/goss.resignation/index.html) Very interesting thar Goss’ gloss apparently ended when he was passed over for the new intel postition that went to Negroponte. Now Negroponte’s deputy has the CIA job. Let’s not forget this story broke on a Friday, but didn’t get buried. When the Bush administration wants to bury a story, announcements come out on Fridays after the east coast media has gone to bed with the evening news lineup. However, this story came out quite early. The administration didn’t want to bury it, but delay the details. I’m betting the resignation is because of something other than the line the administration is claiming. Perhaps really got caught with his pants down. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/7 "2006-05-06T11:54:57Z")
[More on his replacement:](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/06/washington/06hayden.html?hp&ex=1146974400&en=0cc98544b70aa942&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > [@](#): > > General Hayden, the principal deputy director of national intelligence, would also face serious questions about the controversy over the National Security Agency’s domestic surveillance program, which he oversaw and has vigorously defended. > … > > And while he might bring to the beleaguered C.I.A. the power of his ties to the White House and to his current boss, John D. Negroponte, director of national intelligence, General Hayden could find his background as an Air Force officer and specialist in technical intelligence systems does not suit some at the C.I.A., which specializes in traditional espionage. > > The C.I.A. has long resented the expenditure of billions of dollars on technical systems, like spy satellites, while complaining that the budget for human spies has been too low. > … > > As N.S.A. director until last year, General Hayden oversaw the program to intercept international phone calls and e-mail messages of Americans and others in the United States believed to have links to Al Qaeda. > > General Hayden, 61, has been the program’s most public defender, repeatedly asserting that it is legal and constitutional even though the eavesdropping is done without warrants from a special court set up in 1978 to authorize such surveillance. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/8 "2006-05-06T12:15:04Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Let’s not forget this story broke on a Friday, but didn’t get buried. When the Bush administration wants to bury a story, announcements come out on Fridays after the east coast media has gone to bed with the evening news lineup. However, this story came out quite early. The administration didn’t want to bury it, but delay the details. I’m betting the resignation is because of something other than the line the administration is claiming. Perhaps really got caught with his pants down. While the timing of the story as you define is true I should tell you that there’s been rumbles on this for a couple of weeks now. So it’s not a complete flat-footed surprise inside the beltway. Goss has at least been whispered to be connected in some manner with that ‘comfort suites at the Watergate’ thing (though I’ve no knowledge whether it’s true or not the whispers have been there) so that’s been laying the groundwork for this. Toss in the institutional resistance to his time-in-place from career intel people and his tenure won’t be considered one of the all-time successes. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/9 "2006-05-06T14:46:05Z")
Now that sex has entered into the equation maybe we will start to get some serious investigation into the culture of corruption of the Bush Administration. Without a sex angle there was no way that anybody was going to be held accountable no matter what they did. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/10 "2006-05-06T16:26:45Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Very interesting thar Goss’ gloss apparently ended when he was passed over for the new intel postition that went to Negroponte. Now Negroponte’s deputy has the CIA job. Which, in view of Negroponte’s shameful and criminal history, should frighten us all. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303136](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303136) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/11 "2006-05-06T16:48:38Z")
Why can’t I ever have a job where hookers and hotel rooms are arranged for me, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/12 "2006-05-06T19:11:37Z")
Pardon my ignorance, but what’s all this about Goss and hookers? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/13 "2006-05-06T20:07:07Z")
[Here ya go.](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/05/breaking-cia-director-porter-goss-resigns/) It more directly implicates Goss’s hand-picked #3 guy, improbably named Dusty Foggo, but > [@](#): > > Last week, Harper’s magazine reported that party-goers “under intense scrutiny by the FBI are current and former lawmakers on Defense and Intelligence committees — including one person who now holds a powerful intelligence post.” CIA Director Porter Goss is perhaps the only individual who fits such a description. To get a serious investigation by a GOP-controlled Congress of course requires that a blowjob be involved, but there may indeed be one here. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/14 "2006-05-07T15:41:01Z")
Goss was pushed. It was most likely one of those “quit or I’ll fire you” situations. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/15 "2006-05-07T17:37:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Here ya go.](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/05/breaking-cia-director-porter-goss-resigns/) It more directly implicates Goss’s hand-picked #3 guy, improbably named Dusty Foggo, butTo get a serious investigation by a GOP-controlled Congress of course requires that a blowjob be involved, but there may indeed be one here. Um, the key point is that a Democrat has to be involved. No Dems involved hiere, so the line will be, “Nothing to see here, folks, move along.” Of course, with sex involved, the media might not be so inclined to “move along.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/16 "2006-05-07T18:43:49Z")
[Behind the Goss toss](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/415620p-351086c.html) > [@](#): > > the final push came from the “very alarmed” President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, intelligence and Congressional sources said. > > Alarms were set off at the advisory board by a widening FBI sex and cronyism investigation that’s targeted Kyle (Dusty) Foggo, the No.3 official at the CIA, and also touched on Goss himself. > > The 16-member bipartisan board, now headed by former Goldman Sachs executive Stephen Friedman, has the mandate to conduct periodic assessments on “the quality, quantity and adequacy of intelligence collection.” > > The board, which includes longtime Bush confidant and former Commerce Secretary Don Evans, joined in the growing chorus inside and outside the CIA calling for Goss’ ouster, persuading Bush to act, sources said. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/17 "2006-05-08T00:10:16Z")
Don’t look too closely at the Bush Administration. Every rock you turn over has a bigger snake under it. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/18 "2006-05-08T01:57:25Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Um, the key point is that a Democrat has to be involved. No Dems involved hiere, so the line will be, “Nothing to see here, folks, move along.” Of course, with sex involved, the media might not be so inclined to “move along.” I have the feeling the conservative controlled media in this country are going to say that “blow jobs are sooo 90’s”, and let it drop like Dusty Fogge’s pants at the Watergate. I wonder if Crooks & Liars or the Daily Show will find the sound bite “Gossie, you’re doing a heckuva job” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/19 "2006-05-08T06:57:35Z")
You know, a part of me can’t help but wonder if Bush wasn’t pressuring Goss to cook up some intel on Iran, thus justifying military action. Goss, being no dummy, decided to bail rather than follow orders. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589/20 "2006-05-11T00:45:00Z")
**Epilogue:** As it turns out, it doesn’t matter if he jumped or was pushed; [he still gets a medal!](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-congressional-award,1,5502038.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines): > [@](#): > > Vice President Dick Cheney and outgoing CIA Director Porter Goss were honored by their former House colleagues Wednesday with awards for distinguished service. > > Also receiving the Congressional Distinguished Service Award in ceremonies in the Capitol’s Statuary Hall were former Reps. Lindy Claiborne Boggs and the Rev. Robert Drinan. > > The award, created in 2002, is given to former House members who serve with “extraordinary distinction and selfless dedication.” Which apparently includes falling on one’s sword. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-porter-goss-jump-or-was-he-pushed/355589.md?page=2)