# Did President Bush Waffle On North Korea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206 "2003-01-07T23:36:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/21 "2003-01-08T18:14:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*And, we now know that they have been lying to the world and secretly developing a nuclear program since 1994. \*\* 1994? Why start there? > [@](#): > > In 1985 US officials announced for the first time that they had intelligence data proving that a secret nuclear reactor was being built 90 km north of Pyongyang near the small town of Yongbyon. > \ > In 1985, under international pressure, Pyongyang acceded to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). from:[http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/) ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/22 "2003-01-08T18:28:26Z")
Without looking, I can hear Bush supporters spinning in place, trying to build up enough momentum to fling his policies back into something resembling sense. Assuming no talks was the correct policy two years ago, why is it suddenly good now? NK is no more repentant than before. Kim has not behaved any better. I thought that was the master plan - ‘wait him out until things magically improve’. Now the plan is retroactively ‘wait him out until things get so bad we have to have talks’? ---
**Author:** ![XPav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b77776/32.png) [@XPav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XPav)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/23 "2003-01-08T19:10:57Z")
**puddleglum** – see, here’s the funny thing: I don’t think we should invade Iraq. I don’t think we should invade North Korea. I’m with **hansel** here. Bush’s stated reasons for attacking Iraq can be applied just as well to North Korea. Bush painted the entire reasons for going to war as black and white, completely ignoring every single shade of gray that existed. To protect the US, we **have** to invade Iraq or else he will use WMD on us or give them to people that have. That’s the reason, right? We never had any public proof that he was doing, and he turned and bent the UN to his will to do this. Now along comes North Korea, who has threatened to use WMD on us or hell, they would sell them to other countries for cash, wouldn’t they? Now, because invading North Korea is **hard** , we should talk first. Great, so if countries don’t want to get invaded, then they **should** develop nuclear weapons. Great. I love it. Because of Bush’s absolute stance on Iraq and wide evil-painting brush, you’ve just put us in the corner and made the US look stupid. Great job, Bush. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/24 "2003-01-08T19:52:23Z")
Wait, it gets better. Or worse, depending. According to an article in this weeks _New Yorker_, White House speechwriter David Frum is credited (if that is the word) with coining the phrase “Axis of Evil” for GeeDubya’s State of the Union speech. Actually, it was coined as “Axis of Hatred” but got improved. “Although Frum initially intended his ‘strong language’ to apply only to Iraq, Iran was quickly added. North Korea was an afterthought.” It is Mr. Hertzberg’s conjecture that NK was added to balance what otherwise would have been an entirely Muslim list. Thus are great decisions made, and lives by the thousands placed in jeopardy. Behold! Our Leader! If anyone feels the need to run screaming from the room, I’ll quite understand. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/25 "2003-01-08T21:52:08Z")
**XPav** That is funny Your arguement seems to be that we shouldn’t attack Iraq unless we also attack North Korea, and we shouldn’t attack North Korea because that would be hard. So we shouldn’t attack Iraq because North Korea is too strong militarily. Using this same logic I have decided to stop eating chicken because tacos give me heartburn. That countries with nuclear weapons are more able to shape other countries policies toward them is not the huge secret you seem to think it is. I can think of one example of someone who has spent billions of dollars and let millions of his subject die to acquire nuclear weapons for this precise reason. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/26 "2003-01-08T22:09:10Z")
I am starting to get scared. Yesterday I was watching a press conference of his excelency Dr. Don Eduardo Duhalde (Argentina’s president), you see mine is a very boring country and that can be seen in the kind of questions that are asked in such events: Economy, Tourism, next year elections, etc. Never about wars, WMD, etc. Suddenly a journalist with a foreign accent changed the boring subject into international politics, she wanted to know the Argentinian position in Brazil’s decission to “increase the development of their nuclear program”. I couldn’t find a cite but as I said I saw it yesterday in tv. And that is why I am scared it seems that the world is starting to feel a little insecure, I would like to said that it’s because of Osama but many countries seem to feel that they will be safer if they have a nuke or two (and not safer from religious fundamentalist precisely) And the problem is that this situation started a couple of years ago. I think we will all come to regret the day that Pakistan and India acquired nukes and got away with them. Now North Corea does the same and not only it seems to get away with it but, more importantly, those nukes seem to be protecting Corea of the consequences of being member of “the axis of evil”. So the moral seems to be if you want security, respect, from the big boy get a WMD. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206/27 "2003-01-08T22:15:01Z")
“This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating.” —George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-president-bush-waffle-on-north-korea/147206.md?page=1)