# Did previous Presidential assassinations (before JFK) spark conspiracy theories?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 25, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052 "2011-08-25T16:22:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/1 "2011-08-25T16:22:27Z")
We’re probably all familiar with some of the conspiracy theories about JFK’s untimely death. You might even know a few people who believe some of the stories. Did previous Presidential assassinations generate similar conspiracy theories, wild stories?
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/2 "2011-08-25T16:24:09Z")
Well, there was the one about the Lincoln assassination, except that it was a real conspiracy.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/3 "2011-08-25T16:40:35Z")
Of course Lincoln’s death was a conspiracy. All that means is that the nutters want to turn it into a much larger and crazier conspiracy. [Here’s one summary](http://americanhistory.about.com/od/lincolnsdeath/a/lincolnsdeath_2.htm).
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/4 "2011-08-25T16:45:04Z")
By conspiracy “_theory_,” do you really mean simply an alternative explanation to the official police report? Or do you mean an imputation of larger, grander motivations, involving more than one person? Because a _conspiracy_ is just some crime where two or more people plan it, usually for some common gain.
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### Author:  [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/5 "2011-08-25T16:52:24Z")
> [@guizot](#):
>
> By conspiracy “_theory_,” do you really mean simply an alternative explanation to the official police report? Or do you mean an imputation of larger, grander motivations, involving more than one person? Because a _conspiracy_ is just some crime where two or more people plan it, usually for some common gain.
Conspiracy theories typically entail both, alternative narratives of events, and a secret, often vast, group.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/6 "2011-08-25T19:10:15Z")
In the Garfield and McKinley assassinations, there was zero scope for an “alternative narrative” of the shooting itself. Both men were shot in public, at close range, in front of crowds of witnesses, by assassins who were apprehended on the spot and admitted to the deed.
Conspiracies involving aid or sponsorship of the assassins were certainly possible, and would probably be pursued more avidly today. At the time the narratives of the “disappointed office seeker” (Guiteau) and the “anarchist” (Czolgosz) were satisfactory to most.
Guiteau was so obviously kookie that any faction employing him would have had to have been desperate indeed. Czolgosz in a sense _was_ part of a conspiracy (the international anarchist movement), albeit a very loose and disorganized one, and there _was_ speculation at the time that he received counsel or assistance, but to my knowledge no evidence of such has ever surfaced.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/7 "2011-08-26T00:35:45Z")
Czolgosz was inspired by Emma Goldman’s speeches (so much so that she thought he was an undercover cop), and that was enough to get her jailed for a few weeks as a probable conspirator, but that theory didn’t last beyond that.
The two women who shot at Ford were both associated with the Manson family, but weren’t suspected of taking orders from him to do it.
And then there was the Mafia, the CIA, and the Cubans who put Oswald up to it.
So no, everything else was the act of of a lone nutter, and has always generally been thought so. Not that there can be _no_ Garfield CT’ers out there; the Internet is a big place.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/8 "2011-08-26T00:49:35Z")
There’s a sort of reverse conspiracy theory that Giuseppe Zangara, who tried to shoot Franklin Roosevelt and ended up killing Chicago Mayor Anton Cermack, was actually hired by the Chicago mob and was really, truly, trying to kill Cermack.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/9 "2011-08-26T00:58:06Z")
Lincoln- 'Twas the Jesuits behind it!
> **[The Suppressed Truth about the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln](https://spirituallysmart.com/lincoln.htm)**
>
> The Suppressed Truth about the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln
And in comic form, courtesy of our favorite Fundie comic writer!
> **[Chick.com:
The Big Betrayal - by Jack T. Chick](https://www.chick.com/products/item?stk=0251)**
>
> 64-PAGE, FULL COLOR COMIC BOOK - Tells the true story of Charles Chiniquy, a former Roman Catholic priest.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/10 "2011-08-26T01:58:42Z")
Charles Guiteau yelled: :I am a Stalwart of the Stalwarts! I did it and I want to be arrested! Arthur is President now!" This suggested to some that it was political, as the Stalwarts were opposed to Garfield, and the assassination would’ve put a more sympathetic President in; the assassination could’ve been orchestrated by Arthur. I don’t anyone took that theory seriously for too long, though. A lot of good that would’ve done him anyway, nowadays most people only know Chester A. Arthur due to his important role in Die Hard III.
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### Author:  [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/11 "2011-08-26T02:29:35Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Lincoln- 'Twas the Jesuits behind it!
>
> [The Suppressed Truth about the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln](http://www.spirituallysmart.com/lincoln.htm)
Fascinating. I was wondering if this was something that surfaced much later, but apparently [Charles Chiniquy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy) was spreading these theories not too long after the assassination.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/12 "2011-08-26T02:44:11Z")
I could’ve sworn I just posted something about [The Reagan Shooting Conspiracy](http://killtown.911review.org/assassinations/reagan.html), but obviously They don’t want you to know. :eek:
If there’d been an Internet in McKinley’s day, conspiracy theories likely would have been rampant, blaming Freemasonry, bimetallism, the Pope, Jews, low farm prices and who knows what else.
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### Author:  [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/13 "2011-08-26T03:03:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> The two women who shot at Ford were both associated with the Manson family, but weren’t suspected of taking orders from him to do it.
Squeaky Fromme, yes, but are you sure about Sara Jane Moore? That’s not how I remember it.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/14 "2011-08-26T03:12:00Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Charles Guiteau yelled: :I am a Stalwart of the Stalwarts! I did it and I want to be arrested! Arthur is President now!"
Yes, it was an odd case where the assassin “advertised” a conspiracy that didn’t really exist. In fact this created something of a sympathy backlash for Arthur, as there was later for Jodie Foster after the Reagan shooting.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/15 "2011-08-26T03:59:19Z")
I always thought that the reason the JFK conspiracy was such a big deal was the combination of a faster press and the fact that Oswald was killed before trial. I’m not surprised that there were conspiracies, but is there any information on how widely believed these were, relative to the JFK one?
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/16 "2011-08-26T04:00:27Z")
No mention of [The Millard Fillmore Conspiracy](http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/almost-neglecting-the-neglected-anniversary-of-millard-fillmores-bathtub-h-l-menckens-hoax-and-the-lessons-that-lie-therein/)?
[http://www.ipassthetime.com/2011/04/millard-fillmore-presidential.html](http://www.ipassthetime.com/2011/04/millard-fillmore-presidential.html)
is a more well-thought-out conspiracy.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/17 "2011-08-26T04:17:11Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I always thought that the reason the JFK conspiracy was such a big deal was the combination of a faster press and the fact that Oswald was killed before trial.
The fact that Oswald shot Kennedy from a distance, wasn’t seen in the act, wasn’t apprehended at the crime scene, had a very unusual background, and denied guilt were also factors.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-previous-presidential-assassinations-before-jfk-spark-conspiracy-theories/594052/18 "2011-08-26T05:58:39Z")
> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#):
>
> Squeaky Fromme, yes, but are you sure about Sara Jane Moore? That’s not how I remember it.
I believe you’re correct. [Moore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Jane_Moore) apparently had an obsession with Patty Hearst, and had political reasons for attempting the assassination, but apparently, no connection to Manson.