I’ll see you and raise you:
Absolutely.
I tend to think the Capitol police and whoever else was there when the rioters broke in showed remarkable restraint; they’d have been well within their rights to start firing, or whatever lesser violence they saw fit to use.
Actually I’m really surprised more people didn’t get shot; the fact that the police were far outnumbered tends to lead to that kind of thing.
And I"m with @ratatoskK, in that this seemed to be deliberate. I mean, I didn’t expect a mob storming the Capitol, but at the same time everyone had to be expecting something to happen after Trump’s rally just a few blocks down the Mall. Not having a robust security presence at the Capitol building is inexcusable in that circumstance.
I suspect heads will roll in the Capitol police after Jan 20. With any luck, the identities of the protesters won’t be released until after then also, so that Trump can’t pardon them.
And let’s hope that the one who incited them to riot will face some consequences also.
Did anyone else get the impression that once the rioters gained the top of the steps, and the Capitol Police pulled-back, the mob seemed surprised? It’s like they were not expecting it to be so easy, and once they got that far, were not sure what to do next.
I don’t think this works, unfortunately - there’s the precedent of the blanket pardon for draft evasion. Specific names are not required, he could just pardon anyone involved at the Capitol.
Yet another reason why it’s important to get him out of office immediately.
But I thought that the Proud Boys were going to dress like Antifa. That means that the violence came from Proud Boys dressed up as Antifa dressed up as Proud Boys.
Unless you’re playing 5-dimentional chess, in which case it could be Antifa dressed like Proud Boys dressed like Antifa dressed like Proud boys, or maybe it was…
OK, I’ll shut up now.
Here’s another reason to freak out: Remember in December the Defense Department refused to cooperate with the Biden transition team? This was from Dec 18 through Dec 30. Given what happened yesterday, I wonder if there’s any connection. (News articles here, here, and here.)
Nobody brings up the fact that numerous officials in DC including Democrats admitted to scaling back police and not calling for reinforcements BECAUSE of the overreaction to the BLM protests earlier. The picture of the cops surrounding the Lincoln Memorial was taken weeks after protests had already started. I bet the police are out en-force today much like they had been in that photo.
I’m really conflicted about this:
From the cite from @ratatoskK
‘Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup’
But if you were going to conduct a coup, would these guys be your storm troopers?
If it was an actual attempt at a coup you would think people would bring guns as opposed to the general disorganized rabble we saw. It’s like when people claimed that guy who jumped the fence of the White House to try to stab Obama was actually deliberately allowed to come in from Secret Service insiders.
A darkness is lifting…
Funny word, “dark.” Or maybe not so funny. I read the news today, oh boy. So I got up and I cleaned the toilet. I’m looking forward to 2021.
Reciprocating hate is not going to do it, and I say that with long and painful experience.
Only for the next 12 days or so.
They say the cop who was killed was bashed in the skull with a fire extinguisher. Just imagine for a second that that had happened during the BLM protests.
But let’s also say that the guy who did that is arrested on Jan 21. What the hell can Trump do about that?
Trump could issue a blanket pardon in the next few days and then none of the insurrectionists could ever be charged in federal court for their involvement.
Well I’m not about to predict a limit on what crazy thing Trump is capable of. Pardoning a cop killer. That’d be a new one. And if it happened, the thread title would be answered with an exclamation point.
I think, with absolutely no solid information to back it, that the kid gloves approach here comes down to a combination of these reasons:
- The Federal government is currently close to a headless chicken.
- The Capitol police didn’t think things would get all that bad. News reports say they prepared to control a “First Amendment event”. The MAGA crowd is supposed to be the “back the blue”, “law and order” crowd, so police simply ignored the “Storm the capitol”-element in the online build up to this.
- A mix of sympathy for the rioters and “we fucked up the preparations and are now outnumbered anyway”-sentiment led the Capitol police to open the gates instead of risking a full on gun battle.
- National guard reinforcements were delayed. They weren’t brought in due to point 1 and 2, and then Trump and his recently installed Pentagon lickspittles delayed a quick (late) deployment.
- I don’t know what the situation was on the ground when the rioters started leaving. But it seems to me the calculation was similar then. “We kind of like these guys” and “we’re still outnumbered”. I assume the troops weren’t generally aware one of their own had his head bashed in earlier.
tl;dr Hell yeah, they got off easy! Whether it was because the cops are all maga-loving racists or cowardly bullies I do not know.
The optics (to his own side) of a blanket pardon are not straightforward here.
(1) They are pushing a narrative that the worst of what went on here was attributable to antifa infiltration. So is he pardoning antifa?
(2) A cop did not just die accidentally, this is not just felony murder - he was bashed in the head with a fire extinguisher.
The right wing propagandists are capable of bizarre levels of cognitive dissonance, so I’m sure they will find ways to rationalize a pardon while still claiming it was antifa and being pro law and order. But still… Trump doesn’t give a shit about them, maybe Trump just decides creates too much of a headache for him and it’s just not a priority to issue a pardon.
I think deadly force was absolutely justified. But I also know the police were outnumbered, and I think I’ve seen photos of insurgents bearing pistols and long arms. so I’ll withhold judgment on the tactical realities on the ground (barring the higher-up decision not to reinforce - someone screwed that up).
I’ve seen multiple insurgents identified via selfie, I’m reading there is now a manhunt underway, and I’m reminded that (ironically enough), Trump passed an EO mandating 10 years for anyone who vandalizes federal property. Not to mention that the injured policeman is now being reported as dead.
So maybe it’s a bit premature to say they “got off easy” until they actually do get off.
Does it matter?