# Did Rand Paul say political involvement of parents of gunned down kids is inappropriate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003 "2013-04-18T03:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/181 "2013-04-25T20:04:41Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > No, you are myopically focused on immigration because it falls into your beliefs that immigrants are bad. I’m focusing on immigration \*\*BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT UP! \*\* Please provide a cite where I said immigrants are bad. You claimed that a story about two immigrants, one of whom is still in the system HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRATION. Laughable on the face of it. If you want to debate this further, open a thread on the subject. I’m done with this hijack. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/182 "2013-04-25T21:32:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I haven’t seen anywhere where **John Mace** said that immigrants are bad. Could you please provide a cite where he did? So there is no connection between the bombers and immigration? I’m glad you disagree with him too > [@Shodan](#): > > Unless you got it from where I suspect you did, in which case keep your pants on. No, the pants stay off. Its cooler that way > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m focusing on immigration \*\*BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT UP! \*\* I did not make immigration an issue. Republicans in Congress and on the airwaves brought up the connection. I said there was no such connection. Now if you are only focusing on immigration because I brought it up on this thread, then we can both end the discussion now by agreeing that immigration has absolutely, 100% nothing to do with the Boston bombings and that no immigration bill in Congress should be delayed or modified because of what happened last week HOWEVER, if you want to claim I brought this up, and use that as a springboard to say that we should delay or modify the immigration bill, that “we haven’t had time to debate it”, or any such BS, then I’m going to call foul on that and tell you to prove that immigration has something do with this. And at the same time, I want you to tell me why Cambridge Rindge or Bunker Hill graduates are not being looked at for possible links, or Tamerlan’s boxing career, or anything else he’s ever done but seems to draw no suspicion from you. Its only immigration, huh? That’s the only thing that needs to be looked at? Personally, I think its because he’s a Caucasian, you know how wily those guys are > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please provide a cite where I said immigrants are bad. Why do you favor delaying or modifying the Congressional immigration bill due to the bombings? They’re unrelated, after all > [@John\_Mace](#): > > You claimed that a story about two immigrants, one of whom is still in the system HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRATION. Laughable on the face of it. Tell me again why you simply hand wave away the connection to Bunker Hill college? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you want to debate this further, open a thread on the subject. I’m done with this hijack. I actually don’t want to debate this further as I see you have nothing at all substantive to contribute and any discussion trying to connect immigration to the Boston bombings would be a waste of time. There simply is no connection and no reason whatsoever to delay immigration reform in Congress because of it. Immigration has as much to do with the bombings as the fact that they went to Cambridge Rindge and were Caucasians. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/183 "2013-04-26T01:55:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I haven’t defended Rand Paul’s position on guns, either, I defended his specific remarks that this thread is supposedly about. -Human Action 04-25-2013 08:57 AM 114a0857 You defended him by agreeing that his remarks should certainly be interpreted as saying the families political activism in the wake of their tragedy is inappropriate. You don’t like the word “inappropriate” but you did like the words, “It is largely a mistake”. You posted this on April 18th. > [@](#): > > “\*\*\*\*It is \*\*largely a mistake \*\*to talk about issues in the wake of crisis, in the wake of tragedy,” he {Senator Rand Paul} said. -Cited by Human Action #022 04-18-2013 09:37 AM 108a0937 And here is where you agreed with Rand Paul that these families actions are largely a mistake. Rand Paul said ‘it is’ he did not say it has been, historically, largely a mistake. [QUOTE] He’s right that actions in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy can be driven by emotion instead of reason, and produce outcomes that seem irrational in the light of subsequent cool reflection. -Human Action #022 04-18-2013 09:37 AM 108a0937 /QUOTE] And for the record, Rand Paul was talking about the Newtown families political action when he said talking about the issues so close to a tragedy is largely a mistake. > [@](#): > > When I see the father and the mothers … testifying and I know they are coming voluntarily and they want to come and be part of this debate. -Rand Paul These people want to talk and according to Rand Paul that is ‘largely a mistake’. You cannot change what was said. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/184 "2013-04-26T02:32:27Z")
You asked: > [@](#): > > It’s “irrational” to point out that past legislative actions done in a time of heightened emotion have produced poor outcomes? That’s just history, I’m afraid. -Human Action 04-25-2013 09:26 AM 115a0926 Who’s interpretation of history must we accept? Yours? My sense of history and perception of gun regulation in this country is that the current laws are irrational and are being kept way to weak because of the irrational and senseless emotions of the gun rights lobby and because of paranoid and crazy libertarian driven hysteria that has no willingness to compromise on anything. And the gun manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank. Hysteria sells. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/185 "2013-04-26T03:25:05Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You defended him by agreeing that his remarks should certainly be interpreted as saying the families political activism in the wake of their tragedy is inappropriate. You don’t like the word “inappropriate” but you did like the words, “It is largely a mistake”. I liked them so much I never used them myself… “Inappropriate” is the word _you_ chose. There’s nothing inappropriate about what the families are doing. You can declare that I _do_ think they’re acting inappropriately, but that’s not a debate, it’s a puppet show. > [@](#): > > You posted this on April 18th. > > And here is where you agreed with Rand Paul that these families actions are largely a mistake. Rand Paul said ‘it is’ he did not say it has been, historically, largely a mistake. That’s what “it is largely a mistake” means. If he meant this specific instance of political action, he wouldn’t say “largely”, which indicates he’s referring to multiple instances. He’s saying the same thing I said, in his clumsy, Rand Paul way: let’s not be hasty and pass laws purely because we’re all fired up at the moment. He’s not specifically referring to the Newtown families; that’s something he brings up later in his remarks. He’s talking about the gun debate itself. [QUOTE=Human Action] He’s right that actions in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy can be driven by emotion instead of reason, and produce outcomes that seem irrational in the light of subsequent cool reflection. [/QUOTE] What I wrote is true. I even gave examples. Again, unless you think that there can be no such thing as a bad gun law, it’s plainly obvious that a bad gun law can be passed. One possible cause would be a cause that’s led to bad laws & other government action in the past: emotionally-charged, tragic events. > [@](#): > > And for the record, Rand Paul was talking about the Newtown families political action when he said talking about the issues so close to a tragedy is largely a mistake. > > These people want to talk and according to Rand Paul that is ‘largely a mistake’. See above; no he wasn’t. You are combining two different statements, neither of which are damning or even inflammatory on their own, into a chimera that _still_ isn’t inflammatory, though you seem to dearly wish it were. Remember that we’re talking about some extemporaneous remarks at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast. You know what, since I have too much time on my hands, I’ll transcribe the remarks at the breakfast, taken from [this video](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/17/rand_paul_obama_has_used_newtown_families_as_props.html) > [@Rand Paul](#): > > You know, I think it’s largely a mistake to talk about issues in the wake of crisis and the wake of tragedy. You know, the one thing that’s disappointed me about - \*\*I think gun control is a legitimate issue for our country to debate and decide where and how we can fix problems of violence \*\*- but I really hate to see it - I’m a parent, and I have three boys and I hate to see it and using people, I think, as props, and politicizing people’s tragedy. I mean, when I see the father and the mothers and them testifying and I know they are coming voluntarily and they want to come and be part of this debate. It still saddens me just to see them. And I think that in some cases the president has used them as props. And that disappoints me. **The way I’d look at it is a little bit in the sense that tragedy - how could we have prevented the tragedy? - and that’s really why I come down on the side of not being for any of the proposals because none of the proposals really would address the tragedy.** Context is essential, isn’t it? Clearly Paul is fine with a debate on gun control, he never criticizes the families, he even bases his approach on what happened specifically at Newtown, he just doesn’t think any of the current proposals are good ideas. > [@](#): > > You cannot change what was said. I don’t need to, it’s all quite sensible. It’s when you read nonsense into it like this: > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So what you are saying is the current victims rights activisits are wrong and you link that emotion to the kind of emotion that produced the Iraq War, but the gun lobby side are all reasonable clear thinking folks and the laws on the books are reasonable ones and we should not let emotions of parents who had their children gunned down in Kindergarten change them. …seemingly based on what you think gun-rights supporters must think, rather than anything I’ve said, that we have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/186 "2013-04-26T03:28:07Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You asked: > > Who’s interpretation of history must we accept? Yours? Ok, are you saying that that’s never happened? Forget gun law, are you saying that what I described has never happened? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > My sense of history and perception of gun regulation in this country is that the current laws are irrational and are being kept way to weak because of the irrational and senseless emotions of the gun rights lobby and because of paranoid and crazy libertarian driven hysteria that has no willingness to compromise on anything. > > And the gun manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank. Hysteria sells. Bully for you. Blaming the libertarians is rich, though, if you think they are behind the gun-rights movement or driving hysteria you’re pretty disconnected from reality. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/187 "2013-04-30T00:06:52Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ok, are you saying that that’s never happened? Forget gun law, are you saying that what I described has never happened? > > Bully for you. Blaming the libertarians is rich, though, if you think they are behind the gun-rights movement or driving hysteria you’re pretty disconnected from reality. This is from a Libertarian Website: Dear Fellow Patriot, House Speaker John Boehner is unashamedly discussing moving a gun control bill of his own. And he’s saying he will “consider” anti-gun legislation that Harry Reid rams through the Senate. Thats why it’s vital gun owners crank up the heat on members of the U.S. House to OPPOSE gun control. Sign your No Gun Control, No Deals petition to your Congressman below RIGHT NOW! > **[Conservative Libertarian Outpost](https://patricksperry.com/)** > > DEO VINDICE MOLAN LABE! > **[Sign the Petition to STOP the United Nations Gun Ban - National Association...](http://nagr.org/house-no-gun-ban.aspx?pid=1a&r=25)** ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/188 "2013-04-30T01:13:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > This is from a Libertarian Website: It’s a self-styled Conservative Libertarian blog, with a tagline of Molan Labe. How would you think they’d come down on gun control? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Dear Fellow Patriot, > > House Speaker John Boehner is unashamedly discussing moving a gun control bill of his own. > > And he’s saying he will “consider” anti-gun legislation that Harry Reid rams through the Senate. > > Thats why it’s vital gun owners crank up the heat on members of the U.S. House to OPPOSE gun control. > > Sign your No Gun Control, No Deals petition to your Congressman below RIGHT NOW! > [http://patricksperry.wordpress.com/](http://patricksperry.wordpress.com/) > > [Sign the Petition to STOP the United Nations Gun Ban - National Association for Gun Rights](http://nagr.org/house-no-gun-ban.aspx?pid=1a&r=25) This is from a Socialist Website: Iraq, Afghanistan Wars Will Cost U.S. 4-6 Trillion Dollars: Report Source: IPS By Jim Lobe WASHINGTON, Mar 30 2013 (IPS) - Costs to U.S. taxpayers of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will run between four and six trillion dollars, making them the most expensive conflicts in U.S. history, according to a new report by a prominent Harvard University researcher. [http://socialistworker.org/blog/critical-reading/2013/03/30/astronomical-costs-iraq-afghan](http://socialistworker.org/blog/critical-reading/2013/03/30/astronomical-costs-iraq-afghan) Clearly, opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is driven by socialists. I don’t know how many libertarians you think there are in this country, but I’ll be the first to admit, we aren’t driving much of anything at the national policy level. We’re drastically outnumbered by conservatives and progressives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/189 "2013-04-30T03:14:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why do you favor delaying or modifying the Congressional immigration bill due to the bombings? They’re unrelated, after all Ugh… I did not want to continue this, but since you insist on disparaging my character… Cite that I favor delaying an immigration bill? Show us your rgument that, even if I did, this proves that I think immigrants are bad? Once again I am compelled to remind a poster of the first rule of holes. You have some odd belief that if I don’t agree with you 100% that I am against you, 100%. George W. Bush had the same problem-- if you’re not with us, you’re against us. You made a sweeping assertion that this had “nothing” to do with immigration. I called you on that. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s OK to admit you were wrong. People will actually think better of you. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/190 "2013-04-30T11:11:35Z")
The NRA’s fabricated but escalating view of the Second Amendment was ridiculed by former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger—a conservative appointed by President Richard Nixon—in a PBS Newshour interview in 1991, where he called it “one of the greatest pieces of fraud—I repeat the word ‘fraud’—on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.” [http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767](http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/191 "2013-04-30T11:14:00Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s a self-styled Conservative Libertarian blog, with a tagline of Molan Labe. How would you think they’d come down on gun control? > > This is from a Socialist Website: > > Iraq, Afghanistan Wars Will Cost U.S. 4-6 Trillion Dollars: Report > Source: IPS > > By Jim Lobe > > WASHINGTON, Mar 30 2013 (IPS) - Costs to U.S. taxpayers of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will run between four and six trillion dollars, making them the most expensive conflicts in U.S. history, according to a new report by a prominent Harvard University researcher. > > [http://socialistworker.org/blog/critical-reading/2013/03/30/astronomical-costs-iraq-afghan](http://socialistworker.org/blog/critical-reading/2013/03/30/astronomical-costs-iraq-afghan) > > Clearly, opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is driven by socialists. > I don’t know how many libertarians you think there are in this country, but I’ll be the first to admit, we aren’t driving much of anything at the national policy level. We’re drastically outnumbered by conservatives and progressives. Rand Paul’s daddy opposes the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on Libertarian principles and he is hardly a Socialist. It is the Second Amendment hysteria and fear mongering that I have eluded to which converted the NRA in the Seventies from a gun safety and Markmanship Organization to its current polical arm for the right wing cause of protecting gun rights. Prior to the libertarian Second Amendment obsessed take-over of the NRA the NRA was in favor of Gun Laws and registration. Here’s what Warren Burger said about the libertarian Second Amendment obsession: > [@](#): > > The NRA’s fabricated but escalating view of the Second Amendment was ridiculed by former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger—a conservative appointed by President Richard Nixon—in a PBS Newshour interview in 1991, where he called it “one of the greatest pieces of fraud—I repeat the word ‘fraud’—on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.” > > [http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767](http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767) ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/192 "2013-04-30T11:43:33Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You have irrationally cited the above ‘irrational outcomes’ as some kind of indicator that the Newtown Families with all their emotion right after a tragedy could cause another irrational outcome which would equal something as disastrous as the Iraq invasion. Maybe maybe not.. but you are surely concerned about it. > > But the Invasion of Iraq was not emotionally driven by ‘victims’ of the 9/11 attacks who were then petitioning the a reluctanct Federal Governemnt to invade Iraq… The Bush Administration drove fear into the hearts of non-victiim to get his war. > > The Gun Control Debate is much differenent… It is does not arise out of a foreign threat either real or perceived or fabricated. The Gun Victims loss is real… not imagined like Iraq’s WMD. The opponents of the Gun violence victims are an organized lobby group that have had their way for setting policy of several decades. > > I believe the current gun laws in effect are irrational and were enacted due to emotion more than anything else. > > So what you are saying is the current victims rights activisits are wrong and you link that emotion to the kind of emotion that produced the Iraq War, but the gun lobby side are all reasonable clear thinking folks and the laws on the books are reasonable ones and we should not let emotions of parents who had their children gunned down in Kindergarten change them. I consider the bloodshed that will result from attempting to confiscate guns from the 70 to 150 million Americans who currently own them to be a negative outcome. I consider the idea that any death, tragedy, or person crying in Congress gives Barack Obama or any other President the right to ignore clear Supreme Court rulings, on the Second Amendment granting an individual right under the Constitution or any other issue, to be a negative outcome. I consider the abandonment of proven crime reduction strategies that have made the U.S. a massively safer place to live over the last 40 years in favor of magical thinking about gun confiscation that will lead to a return to 1980s-level murder rates to be a negative outcome for the people who will be murdered and for everyone. Do you consider these things positives? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/193 "2013-04-30T12:20:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The NRA’s fabricated but escalating view of the Second Amendment was ridiculed by former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger—a conservative appointed by President Richard Nixon—in a PBS Newshour interview in 1991, where he called it “one of the greatest pieces of fraud—I repeat the word ‘fraud’—on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.” > > [http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767](http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1767) If you want to attack the NRA, that sounds like material for a new thread, since it has nothing to do with Rand Paul’s comments. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Rand Paul’s daddy opposes the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on Libertarian principles and he is hardly a Socialist. By your logic, if socialists oppose the war, they must be driving the opposition. Or, you’re just wrong that libertarians drive the gun-rights movement. There are somewhere around 150 million American gun owners. How many do you think are libertarians? Hint: Being pro-gun-rights doesn’t make you a libertarian. Different political groups can share some of the same ideas. For example, isolationists and socialists are both anti-Iraq War. Libertarians and Democrats are both pro-choice. Socialists and Democrats are both pro-organized labor. Paleoconservatives and socialists are both anti-corporatist. And on and on. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It is the Second Amendment hysteria and fear mongering that I have eluded to which converted the NRA in the Seventies from a gun safety and Markmanship Organization to its current polical arm for the right wing cause of protecting gun rights. Prior to the libertarian Second Amendment obsessed take-over of the NRA the NRA was in favor of Gun Laws and registration. Yes, in 1977 the NRA underwent an internal shift and emerged as a political organization. This has what, again, to do with libertarians? And if that editorial is where you get your ideas about libertarians, it’s no wonder you hate and fear them. It calls **Antonin Scalia** a libertarian, for Pete’s sake! > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Here’s what Warren Burger said about the libertarian Second Amendment obsession: Burger never mentions libertarians. ETA: Put it this way: I would looooove for libertarians to be as powerful as you imagine us to be, dictating national policy from on high. But we simply aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/194 "2013-04-30T18:14:52Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I consider the bloodshed that will result from attempting to confiscate guns from the 70 to 150 million Americans who currently own them to be a negative outcome. I consider the idea that any death, tragedy, or person crying in Congress gives Barack Obama or any other President the right to ignore clear Supreme Court rulings, on the Second Amendment granting an individual right under the Constitution or any other issue, to be a negative outcome. I consider the abandonment of proven crime reduction strategies that have made the U.S. a massively safer place to live over the last 40 years in favor of magical thinking about gun confiscation that will lead to a return to 1980s-level murder rates to be a negative outcome for the people who will be murdered and for everyone. Do you consider these things positives? So you must be one of the gun rights hysteria propagandists that 150 million Americans are going to have their guns confiscated if any law is passed to regulate firearms in any way. Are you a libertarian? No one is proposing taking your guns away? Unless of course it is a machine gun in violation of the 1934 Machine Gun Ban, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/195 "2013-04-30T18:27:02Z")
How much money are you willing to stake on the proposition that “no one” (on this board? in Congress? anywhere?) is proposing the confiscation of guns? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/196 "2013-04-30T19:07:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Unless of course it is a machine gun in violation of the 1934 Machine Gun Ban, of course. No such thing. The [National Firearms Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act) didn’t ban machine guns, it just created a regulatory framework for their sale and transfer and such (among other types of firearms, such as short-barreled rifles). I’ve fire legally-owned, civilian machine guns. Heck, the [Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_Creek_Gun_Range#Machine_gun_shoot) was a few hours from my house a couple weeks ago (and a great ol’ time). ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/197 "2013-04-30T21:28:42Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > How much money are you willing to stake on the proposition that “no one” (on this board? in Congress? anywhere?) is proposing the confiscation of guns? You wrote ‘…attempting to confiscate guns from the 70 to 150 million Americans who currently own them’. Name one member of the US Congress who proposed such a thing. Sounds like confiscating ‘all’ guns to me or one hell of a lotta guns. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/198 "2013-04-30T21:40:39Z")
Do you have a response that is either in English or relevant to what I wrote? I’d settle for one or the other, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/199 "2013-04-30T23:55:30Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Do you have a response that is either in English or relevant to what I wrote? I’d settle for one or the other, at this point. This is plain English. Provide some backup. You wrote ‘…attempting to confiscate guns from the 70 to 150 million Americans who currently own them’. Name one member of the US Congress who proposed such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/200 "2013-05-01T21:40:37Z")
I suppose libertarians have nothing to do with this: > [@](#): > > . Three in 10 registered American voters believe an armed rebellion might be necessary in the next few years, according to the results of a staggering poll released Wednesday by Fairleigh Dickinson University’s PublicMind. > > [http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/05/armed-rebellion-poll.php?m=1](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/05/armed-rebellion-poll.php?m=1) And these ready to rebel through armed insurrection Americans are not driven by emotion, but Sandy Hook victims’ parents are all driven by emotion. > [@](#): > > The poll also found that 25 percent of voters believe the American public is being lied to about the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting by people seeking to promote a political agenda. An additional 11 percent said they weren’t sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003.md?page=11)