# Did Rand Paul say political involvement of parents of gunned down kids is inappropriate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003 "2013-04-18T03:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/61 "2013-04-18T17:31:36Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Why can’t the families have a vote on a bill? > > Why don’t they deserve it? We don’t pass bills just to make people feel good. Well, we do, but we shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/62 "2013-04-18T17:36:58Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > …My point that you have cited in your response is that your, “We need to pause for more leisurely debate” is in itself an unreasonable plea based upon emotional ties to the right to possess firearms with few restrictions or no restrictions at all beyond self-governance. > > What’s to leisurely debate after so many incidents over so at least two decades. > > Why can’t the families have a vote on a bill? > > Why don’t they deserve it? If any of the family members are elected the the U.S. Senate, then and only then, would they be able to vote on a bill before the U.S. Senate. That’s just the way things work. Unless those who want more gun control laws actually address the actual concerns of those voting against these bills, the gun banners will fail. If the families of those who died at the hands of the monster in Newtown want to help pass laws that would prevent another Newtown tragedy, they need to tell Reid to introduce bills that would deal with the monster BEFORE he becomes a monster. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/63 "2013-04-18T17:44:21Z")
“I hate to see using people … as props and politicizing people’s tragedy. When I see the father and the mothers … testifying and I know they are coming voluntarily and they want to come and be part of this debate. It still saddens me just to see them. And I think that in some cases the president has used them as props. That disappoints me.” This quote isn’t even especially coherent. It starts by admitting the parents were volitional actors, but then has to redefine them as passive objects to try to justify his ‘sadness’. I think it’s horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/64 "2013-04-18T17:44:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And in your examples, an “emotional response” might have been to drop a nuke on Afghanistan (wrong) or imprison Japanese (wrong). Going to war was a rational response to the facts, not an emotional one. Going to war was unquestionably a response _driven_ by emotion, which is not to say wholly shaped by it. The “facts” were urgently meaningful because of their emotional import: our fear, our anger, so on. That’s _why_ we acted. The part of rationality, ideally, is to shape the _how_. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/65 "2013-04-18T17:44:38Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Generally the folks in favor of tighter gun regulations, would be in favor of requiring Energy producers to clean up coal to protect the health of the general public. > > There has been a steady evolution of cleaner fuels in all aspects of energy production… That’s a bit of a stretch. Tighter gun control = clean air and water? If you’re pro-2nd then you’re pro-pollution? Who do you think you’re going to convince with THAT argument? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/66 "2013-04-18T17:48:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you also against gun owners speaking to Congress about their need for self-defence? Should non-experts on _both_ sides not be used to support their respective causes? Nope. I’m against politicians wasting time on legislation that isn’t desired. I posted a cite showing what people are concerned about. To paraphrase James Carville: “IT’S THE ECONOMY STUPID”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/67 "2013-04-18T18:16:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > As if Rand Paul and his fellow Republicans don’t routinely trot out poor oppressed corporations as props to gut “job-killing regulations”. Apparently the only causes that can be lobbied before the Senate are right-wing causes. That would be at the top of the list of public concern as I [cited](http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-only-4-americans-think-gun-control-important-problem)earlier. Gun legislation is at the bottom of the list. This was a publicity stunt. It isn’t even on the House agenda and they probably knew it would fail in the Senate. It’s a way for the President to take the focus off his failings. He’s spending time and public money on legislation that is going nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/68 "2013-04-18T18:20:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This was a publicity stunt. It isn’t even on the House agenda and they probably knew it would fail in the Senate. It’s a way for the President to take the focus off his failings. He’s spending time and public money on legislation that is going nowhere. Tell me something that any politician has done recently that does not qualify as a ‘publicity stunt’. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/69 "2013-04-18T18:35:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Tell me something that any politician has done recently that does not qualify as a ‘publicity stunt’. I drew a pretty clear line in the sand. Legislation with no chance of seeing the light of day in the other House is a deliberate waste of time and therefore a publicity stunt. A big clue that bullshit legislation is about to follow is any statement that starts with: “if it only saves one life”. That is a soundbite with absolutely no basis in reality. When you apply that to legislation that has no chance of passing then it’s part of a publicity stunt designed to get camera time. It falls under the [Won’t someone please think of the children](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pwiki.php/Main/ThinkOfTheChildren) schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/70 "2013-04-18T23:03:23Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If there were no mass shootings involving firearms there would a gun control movement would not be required, now would it? The gun control movement doesn’t have shit to do with what is required. Not when two people are killed with automatics in fifty years, one of them by a corrupt cop, and they still pretend that this is a problem that needs addressing. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/71 "2013-04-18T23:06:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > That’s a bit of a stretch. Tighter gun control = clean air and water? If you’re pro-2nd then you’re pro-pollution? Who do you think you’re going to convince with THAT argument? I am pro-2nd amendment rights just like. Many Pro-2nd are for background checks. I didn’t claim tighter gun control =clean air and water? or that being pro-2nd means you are pro-pollution. For the record here is what I wrote: > [@](#): > > Generally the folks in favor of tighter gun regulations, would be in favor of requiring Energy producers to clean up coal to protect the health of the general public. -Ntfldbyw Where did you get that I wrote if you are pro-2nd then you’re pro-pollution? ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/72 "2013-04-18T23:34:20Z")
Yes, props…however if I remember correctly not all of the families chose to meet with obama, or to take pictures with him or fly around on Air force one with him ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/73 "2013-04-18T23:40:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If any of the family members are elected the the U.S. Senate, then and only then, would they be able to vote on a bill before the U.S. Senate. That’s just the way things work. > > . They deserve to have our US Senators vote on a bill. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/74 "2013-04-19T00:04:25Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > They deserve to have our US Senators vote on a bill. The did. They killed it. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/75 "2013-04-19T00:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Because 60 Senators didn’t vote to bring a bill to a vote. Actually, they did. And then brought the bill to a vote, and it didn’t pass. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > They deserve to have our US Senators vote on a bill. Yes, and that’s exactly what they got. The Senate ultimately voted on the proposed gun control bills and did not pass any of them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/76 "2013-04-19T00:34:34Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Actually, they did. And then brought the bill to a vote, and it didn’t pass. > > Yes, and that’s exactly what they got. The Senate ultimately voted on the proposed gun control bills and did not pass any of them. No they didn’t. The Manchin-Toomeyamendment to extend background checks to unregulated private gun sales was killed by a GOP led Filibuster and never brought up to a vote as part of a bill. The families of victims deserve a vote on a Bill. They did not get it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/77 "2013-04-19T00:41:32Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > No they didn’t. > > The Manchin-Toomeyamendment to extend background checks to unregulated private gun sales was killed by a GOP led Filibuster and never brought up to a vote as part of a bill. > The families of victims deserve a vote on a Bill. They did not get it. The entire bill, which is called Manchin-Toomey, was killed. It didn’t have enough support in the Senate. And the “families of the victims” don’t get any special place in the pantheon of voters-- they get what the rest of us get. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/78 "2013-04-19T01:01:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The entire bill, which is called Manchin-Toomey, was killed. It didn’t have enough support in the Senate. And the “families of the victims” don’t get any special place in the pantheon of voters-- they get what the rest of us get. Reid voted no so he can bring it up again. All this means is the NRA and Gun Manufactures were able to buy 41 Senators t block the legislation from going forward. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/79 "2013-04-19T01:07:11Z")
Do you have any proof they were “bought off” or are you just spouting off at the mouth? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003/80 "2013-04-19T01:12:25Z")
So, we’re done with bitching about Rand Paul and have moved on to gun control in general? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-rand-paul-say-political-involvement-of-parents-of-gunned-down-kids-is-inappropriate/656003.md?page=5)