# Did Romney break the law regarding foreign donations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 14, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483 "2012-08-14T17:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/41 "2012-08-28T02:30:24Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Then why all the slippery slope arguments against reneging corporate personhood? For one thing, individuals wronged would have to appeal to the Supreme Court, rather than “Citizens United” as an entity. I’ve never offered a slippery slope argument. What do you have against people forming groups? Your proposals would destroy them all. Nobody would form a group like CU, or a political party, or a church, in the first place if they had to all go individually to court or otherwise act as single individuals. That would make the group completely pointless. Americans have the right to join together as groups. You need to deal with that fact. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/42 "2012-08-28T02:32:48Z")
> [@President\_T\_Toilet](#): > > @gamer > > I for the life of me can’t understand why anyone would be against striking down the notion of “corporate personhood”. You don’t understand the issue then. Corporate personhood is nonsense, for one thing. Nobody has said a corporation is a person. Corporations are, by definition, legal persons, which is not the same thing as a real person. The law does not say they are. They are simply treated similar to a person in certain limited situations. It’s really no big deal. And it is completely irrelevant to the question of whether groups have rights, or Citizens United, which never mentions the issue of corporate personhood. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/43 "2012-08-28T12:30:43Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > I’ve never offered a slippery slope argument. From this thread: > [@lance strongarm](#): > > like they do in Cuba or North Korea Not to mention, you said that declaring corporations not to be people “wouldn’t affect Citizens United”… then this: > [@lance strongarm](#): > > Your proposals would destroy them all. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/44 "2012-08-28T13:39:32Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > A change in law or the Constitution declaring that corporations aren’t people wouldn’t affect Citizens United at all. There is no more to be said. Corporate personhood is irrelevant to this conversation. This is an excerpt from the proposed ammendment: > [@](#): > > SECTION 1. The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons and do not extend to for-profit corporations, limited liability companies, or other private entities established for business purposes or to promote business interests under the laws of any state, the United States, or any foreign state. > > […] > > SECTION 3. Such corporate and other private entities shall be prohibited from making contributions or expenditures in any election of any candidate for public office or the vote upon any ballot measure submitted to the people. > > SECTION 4. Congress and the States shall have the power to regulate and set limits on all election contributions and expenditures, including a candidate’s own spending, and to authorize the establishment of political committees to receive, spend, and publicly disclose the sources of those contributions and expenditures. How would that not affect the Citizens United decision? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/45 "2012-08-29T01:39:01Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > From this thread: > > Not to mention, you said that declaring corporations not to be people “wouldn’t affect Citizens United”… then this: > > Which is it? Not a slippery slope. Don’t know where you get that. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/46 "2012-08-29T01:40:41Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > This is an excerpt from the proposed ammendment: > > How would that not affect the Citizens United decision? The part about corporations wouldn’t affect it. It’s the other parts that might. Section 1 is completely irrelevant to CU. It would have absolutely devastating effects on the rights of individuals though. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/47 "2012-08-29T09:37:44Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > It would have absolutely devastating effects on the rights of individuals though. How are you defining individuals? As natural persons? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/48 "2012-08-29T21:24:54Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > How are you defining individuals? As natural persons? Of course. Silly question. Corporations are not people. ---
**Author:** ![President\_T\_Toilet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@President\_T\_Toilet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_T_Toilet)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/49 "2012-08-29T23:39:06Z")
I know they are not people. You know they are not people. Yet there are people out there who think they are people. A current presidential candidate is one of them. Question is now what do we do about it? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/50 "2012-08-30T02:41:00Z")
> [@President\_T\_Toilet](#): > > I know they are not people. You know they are not people. Yet there are people out there who think they are people. A current presidential candidate is one of them. Question is now what do we do about it? Nobody thinks corporations are people. Not even Romney actually thinks that. Of course they aren’t. We don’t need to do anything about it because nobody believes it and it’s not a problem. There are no problems being caused by the corporate personhood concept. Corporations are not abusing anything using that concept or getting away with anything. There’s nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/51 "2012-08-30T04:49:35Z")
But corporations are bad! They destroy lives!! They have no soul!! And the courts treat them as people!!! :eek: Don’t you _ **GET IT** _, man?!? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/52 "2012-08-30T09:19:44Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > Of course. Then what individual rights would natural persons be deprived of? > [@lance strongarm](#): > > There are no problems being caused by the corporate personhood concept. [No](http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/monsanto010605.htm)? I suppose some of the problem is shared with the concept of limited liability. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/53 "2012-08-30T13:56:59Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Then what individual rights would natural persons be deprived of? We’ve already discussed this. > [@](#): > > [No](http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/monsanto010605.htm)? No. This has nothing to do with corporate status or corporate personhood. An individual person could also do this. In fact, it happens all the time. It’s like an Alford plea, or when you can go to driving school instead of being tried for a traffic violation. > [@](#): > > I suppose some of the problem is shared with the concept of limited liability. You simply don’t understand what corporations are and want to abolish them. You also want to abolish all groups formed by individuals, including political ones. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/54 "2012-08-31T11:52:34Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > We’ve already discussed this. No, you posted a bunch of slippery slopes about Churches having their things looted and China and North Korea. > [@lance strongarm](#): > > In fact, it happens all the time. It’s like an Alford plea, or when you can go to driving school instead of being tried for a traffic violation. Except a corporation cannot be thrown in prison when its crimes vastly exceed “traffic violations”. > [@lance strongarm](#): > > You also want to abolish all groups formed by individuals, including political ones. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/55 "2012-08-31T13:01:08Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > No, you posted a bunch of slippery slopes about Churches having their things looted and China and North Korea. Not slippery slope at all. > [@](#): > > Except a corporation cannot be thrown in prison when its crimes vastly exceed “traffic violations”. Of course not. They aren’t people. Corporations can’t commit crimes - only people can. See how that works? If a person working for a corporations commits a crime, he can go to jail though. > [@](#): > > Cite? If groups have no rights, as you say, then they have no right to exist. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/56 "2012-09-01T08:33:44Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > Not slippery slope at all. Demonstrate the conditions where the conclusions are always true given the premises. > [@lance strongarm](#): > > Corporations can’t commit crimes - only people can. The standard required in civil suits is lower than the strict liability in personal lawsuits though. Edit: > [@lance strongarm](#): > > If groups have no rights, as you say, then they have no right to exist. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/57 "2012-09-01T14:47:17Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > The standard required in civil suits is lower than the strict liability in personal lawsuits though. I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > If groups have no rights, as you say, then they have no right to exist. It’s a logical statement. It needs no citation. If a group has no rights, then the government could abolish that group and it would have no right to challenge it. Simple statement of fact. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/58 "2012-09-02T13:08:51Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > It needs no citation. Where did I say that groups should have no rights? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/59 "2012-09-02T14:34:57Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Where did I say that groups should have no rights? Sigh. Let’s clear it up then. Should groups have rights, or just individuals? If groups should have rights, what rights? Tell me which ones individuals have that groups shouldn’t, that would be the easiest way. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483/60 "2012-09-03T07:44:22Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > Should groups have rights, or just individuals? I think the rights granted in the Constitution include the right to free association (including to form political groups) and the right to freely exercise a religion (including forming a church and worshipping therein). I do not think the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment was intended to apply to for-profit corporations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-romney-break-the-law-regarding-foreign-donations/631483.md?page=4)