# Did Russia Succeed in a Terrible, Awful, No-Good Plot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 27, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704 "2019-07-27T11:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/21 "2019-07-27T17:40:26Z")
Like you, I firmly disapprove of hypocrisy. “Tsk,tsk!”, I would say. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/22 "2019-07-27T18:01:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The United States is hardly in a position to complain. America has meddled in plenty of foreign elections, such as those in South America. Yeah. It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/23 "2019-07-27T18:49:00Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I never thought about the Russian targeting in much detail. Sure, I knew about the bots and the fake accounts in general, and for instance noted others pointing out such bots on Twitter. But in the back of my head I always imagined viruses unleashed on individual Facebook or Twitter accounts, infiltrating feeds and spreading misinformation throughout the US, wreaking havoc, if even on a small scale, throughout the electorate. Or something like that. But in the end, it was mostly the bots and the sock puppets, wasn’t it? Thousands upon thousands of them, blasting messages to explicitly sow distrust, or even benign messages, like “vote for Hillary, she’ll be good for America”. > > Now, I get that creating fake accounts to do this is unethical. But once the accounts are created, isn’t free speech allowed for the Russians as much as it is for those of us in the US? What is the difference between that and a campaign creating a dishonest ad, twisting the words of the opposing candidate, showing them caught in expressions of befuddlement, or with slow-motion, grainy black and white clips suggesting impending doom if you vote for them, and then blasting _that_ all over the airwaves a thousand times. This is not necessarily a rhetorical question. Help me out here. > > But most important, what can actually be done about it? Think about it in terms of similar things that happen in America. Surely there are people here creating multiple accounts and spamming the country with bullshit. But what are we to do, add an amendment to the Constitution that says a citizen can have one and only one Facebook account, or he’ll be thrown out of the country?! > > The answer is obvious. Pay attention, recognize the Russian spamming for what it is, ignore the dishonest campaign ads, and research shit for ourselves. I’m cynical enough to believe that these types of tactics will always work though, given the fact that they’ve been happening forever, and always do. It is free speech and there isn’t that much difference to be honest. The main crime was that it thwarted the most qualified candidate ever. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/24 "2019-07-27T19:11:57Z")
To my point above. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/25 "2019-07-27T20:33:35Z")
To the OP. I would be perfectly happy if MAGA’s lost their shit if they finally discover that Trump had help from the Russians. Just what are they gonna do? Are the Trump supporters gonna get mad that their president got help from a hostile government? Are they gonna get mad at Mitch for blocking bills that would help to prevent this from happening again? Trump supporters are unreachable. They are the proverbial ‘cut off your nose to spite your face’. I don’t care about them anymore. A decent health care system would help them greatly, but if that means that their God was wrong, they won’t want it. They are idiots. If Trump supporters can tag along on better policies that will help them. That’s fine. Thinking people do try to help everyone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/26 "2019-07-27T21:13:14Z")
I regret I was unclear. I’m not a bit worried about the damage done by the injury of disillusionment. I’m worried that they will see it as a monster of fake news, cooked up by Soros and Clinton to bring down Himself, Il Douche, Savior of His Country. And some of them will react with violence. Super dooper ungood. (I’ve just finished watching Netflix’s documentary about Cambridge Analytica, Bannon, and Trump. Stunning. Many of us won’t learn a lot that we didn’t know, but I doubt any of us won’t learn anything at all. Maybe five years ago, I would not have believed it was possible. That was then, and this is now. Some of the villains were British, some Russian. Most were, at least nominally, American. And some others were very smart people who weren’t quite smart enough. See it. Very yes.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/27 "2019-07-27T21:34:21Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > To the OP. I would be perfectly happy if MAGA’s lost their shit if they finally discover that Trump had help from the Russians. Just what are they gonna do? > > Are the Trump supporters gonna get mad that their president got help from a hostile government? Are they gonna get mad at Mitch for blocking bills that would help to prevent this from happening again? > > Trump supporters are unreachable. They are the proverbial ‘cut off your nose to spite your face’. I don’t care about them anymore. A decent health care system would help them greatly, but if that means that their God was wrong, they won’t want it. They are idiots. > > If Trump supporters can tag along on better policies that will help them. That’s fine. Thinking people do try to help everyone. When Obama was president and he told Putin one thing and the American people another with regards to foreign relations was that treason? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/28 "2019-07-27T21:37:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I regret I was unclear. I’m not a bit worried about the damage done by the injury of disillusionment. I’m worried that they will see it as a monster of fake news, cooked up by Soros and Clinton to bring down Himself, Il Douche, Savior of His Country. And some of them will react with violence. Super dooper ungood. > > (I’ve just finished watching Netflix’s documentary about Cambridge Analytica, Bannon, and Trump. Stunning. Many of us won’t learn a lot that we didn’t know, but I doubt any of us won’t learn anything at all. Maybe five years ago, I would not have believed it was possible. That was then, and this is now. Some of the villains were British, some Russian. Most were, at least nominally, American. And some others were very smart people who weren’t quite smart enough. See it. Very yes.) What exactly will trigger violence among so-called “MAGAts” that is connected to the Russian collusion? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/29 "2019-07-27T21:55:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When Obama was president and he told Putin one thing and the American people another with regards to foreign relations was that treason? Don’t know what you are talking about. Cite please. When Trump accepted help from Russia to help him win the Presidency, was that treason? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/30 "2019-07-27T22:06:52Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Don’t know what you are talking about. Cite please. > > When Trump accepted help from Russia to help him win the Presidency, was that treason? Oooops. It was to Medvedev [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE). Russians are going to meddle regardless of what Trump did. That’s what foreign governments do. Right now think about how much infiltration the Chinese have. Think of the money that gets to the political class from the corporate class that originates in China and is used to promote policy that benefits China. Are we stopping that? Nope. If we want to end foreign influence in American politics we need to treat security, border security, and corruption seriously. Since it benefits the political class we won’t. Again, the primary reason the Russian collusion is so outrageous is that your girl got beat. Now, that said, I am not a fan of foreign manipulation but outside of becoming a police state it’s impossible to prevent the manipulation if it’s manifested as publications or broadcasts. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/31 "2019-07-28T01:04:26Z")
If your system is not robust enough to deny a snake-oil salesman, with a little help from autocrats, a seat at the top, you should just pretend it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/32 "2019-07-28T01:28:12Z")
N/M ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/33 "2019-07-28T02:04:57Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I never thought about the Russian targeting in much detail. Sure, I knew about the bots and the fake accounts in general, and for instance noted others pointing out such bots on Twitter. But in the back of my head I always imagined viruses unleashed on individual Facebook or Twitter accounts, infiltrating feeds and spreading misinformation throughout the US, wreaking havoc, if even on a small scale, throughout the electorate. Or something like that. But in the end, it was mostly the bots and the sock puppets, wasn’t it? Thousands upon thousands of them, blasting messages to explicitly sow distrust, or even benign messages, like “vote for Hillary, she’ll be good for America”. > > Now, I get that creating fake accounts to do this is unethical. But once the accounts are created, isn’t free speech allowed for the Russians as much as it is for those of us in the US? What is the difference between that and a campaign creating a dishonest ad, twisting the words of the opposing candidate, showing them caught in expressions of befuddlement, or with slow-motion, grainy black and white clips suggesting impending doom if you vote for them, and then blasting _that_ all over the airwaves a thousand times. This is not necessarily a rhetorical question. Help me out here. > > But most important, what can actually be done about it? Think about it in terms of similar things that happen in America. Surely there are people here creating multiple accounts and spamming the country with bullshit. But what are we to do, add an amendment to the Constitution that says a citizen can have one and only one Facebook account, or he’ll be thrown out of the country?! > > The answer is obvious. Pay attention, recognize the Russian spamming for what it is, ignore the dishonest campaign ads, and research shit for ourselves. I’m cynical enough to believe that these types of tactics will always work though, given the fact that they’ve been happening forever, and always do. It is legal for countries to advertise in favor of a candidate. China was free to and did do so during the campaign. Russia has now, similarly, introduced an organization in the US that performs legal political advocacy for their preferred candidates. The restriction is simply that they make it public that they are a foreign nation when they advertise, don’t commit fraud at any point, and don’t work in cooperation with an American campaign. To a large extent, these same restrictions apply to American Super PACs as well. Free speech is legal. Fraud is illegal. Coordination with a campaign is illegal. Hacking is illegal. Breaking and entering is illegal. A campaign can’t offshore the White House Plumbers and avoid the law. Free speech doesn’t include theft, fraud, nor libel. And, for political purposes, you have to be open and honest about who you are. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/34 "2019-07-28T02:33:47Z")
And if the goal is to undermine faith in the democratic process itself, the simple knowledge that Russia has _accessed_ our voting systems goes a long way toward accomplishing that even if they didn’t _do_ anything. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/35 "2019-07-28T03:25:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oooops. It was to Medvedev [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE). > > Russians are going to meddle regardless of what Trump did. That’s what foreign governments do. Right now think about how much infiltration the Chinese have. Think of the money that gets to the political class from the corporate class that originates in China and is used to promote policy that benefits China. Are we stopping that? Nope. > > If we want to end foreign influence in American politics we need to treat security, border security, and corruption seriously. Since it benefits the political class we won’t. Again, the primary reason the Russian collusion is so outrageous is that your girl got beat. > > Now, that said, I am not a fan of foreign manipulation but outside of becoming a police state it’s impossible to prevent the manipulation if it’s manifested as publications or broadcasts. You’re entirely missing the point. Yes, foreign governments will try to interfere. That has always happened. What has not happened before, at least in this country, is _the active encouragement to do it by our own politicians for their own political and/or selfish gain_. You’re correct that we can’t control what foreign governments may choose to do – although with politicians who have our country’s interests at heart we can sure make them feel punishment for it. But we damn well can make sure _our own politicians_ are not actively working to allow foreign interests to subvert our electoral process. It does not matter a whit which side it benefits. For any politician who is a citizen of this nation, it is a betrayal to use and encourage foreign intervention to “win.” It _is_ outrageous, and it has nothing to do with our “girl” getting beat. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704/36 "2019-07-28T10:49:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The United States is hardly in a position to complain. America has meddled in plenty of foreign elections, such as those in South America. Nonsense. It’s about protection. By your “logic” Americans shouldn’t complain if someone dropped a couple of nuclear bombs on their country simply because of what happened in 1945. It doesn’t work that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-russia-succeed-in-a-terrible-awful-no-good-plot/837704.md?page=1)