# Did Saddam Hussein actually think that he had stockpiles of chemical weapons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148 "2009-07-15T20:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/1 "2009-07-15T20:25:19Z")
Okay, first of all, let me state that this may be a stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway. I was wondering – is there any evidence that Saddam thought that he had huge stockpiles of chemical weapons at hand? (I know that we did not find them; I was just thinking that perhaps some of his advisors led him to believe that Iraq possessed enough quantities to deter any attack.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/2 "2009-07-15T20:37:25Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Okay, first of all, let me state that this may be a stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway. > > I was wondering – is there any evidence that Saddam thought that he had huge stockpiles of chemical weapons at hand? (I know that we did not find them; I was just thinking that perhaps some of his advisors led him to believe that Iraq possessed enough quantities to deter any attack.) I’m in the middle of a project so I can’t get you a cite right now, but the man who interrogated him said that Hussein didn’t think America would really attack. He had thought it was mindless saber rattling by the son of his old enemy. So there is no reason to assume he thought there were poison gas canisters protecting him. Perhaps Saddam had a sense of safety because he couldn’t imagine that the US really was stupid enough to remove him and release the cap on decades of pent up hostility. Hundred(s) of thousand(s) dead [depending on who’s accounting you believe], millions driven from their homes and who knows how many injured and maimed. A clever administration wouldn’t want that public relations fiasco for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/3 "2009-07-15T20:43:25Z")
I’ll have to dig up a cite if one is requested (it may be the same cite that \*\*Lobohan \*\*would dig up), but I recall reading a piece lately that posited that Sadam was not disuading the world of his lack of weaponry because he want Iran to be scared of his batshittery. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/4 "2009-07-15T20:53:07Z")
Not sure if this is the precise article I recalled, but it is the gist: [FBI interviews detail Saddam Hussein’s fear of Iran, WMD bluff](http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/07/02/fbi.saddam.hussein.interview/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/5 "2009-07-15T20:57:49Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’ll have to dig up a cite if one is requested (it may be the same cite that \*\*Lobohan \*\*would dig up), but I recall reading a piece lately that posited that Sadam was not disuading the world of his lack of weaponry because he want Iran to be scared of his batshittery. Here’s a cite that [Saddam claims he was intentionally bluffing](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html) about having WMD’s to appear strong to Tehran. He did not expect America to call his bluff. This claim was made to FBI interrogators in 2004 and was recently declassified. The FBI states the interrogations (20 total) were “formal” and “casual.” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/6 "2009-07-15T20:58:25Z")
And not only did Iraq want Iran think they had WMDs, Iran wanted the US to believe it so we would attack their longtime enemy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/7 "2009-07-15T21:05:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I was wondering – is there any evidence that Saddam thought that he had huge stockpiles of chemical weapons at hand? Why would he not have known? The guy was the supreme leader of his nation after all, and ruled with an iron fist. If anyone in the country knew about possible WMD it was Saddam. I find it much more credible that he knew he didn’t have them but was running a bluff. Unfortunately for him (and us), the US called him on it…and turns out he had aces and 8’s, while the US had a full house. Unfortunately for us, the insurgents had a fist full of wild cards. > [@](#): > > (I know that we did not find them; I was just thinking that perhaps some of his advisors led him to believe that Iraq possessed enough quantities to deter any attack.) I’d have to say that there isn’t much chance that his advisers told him he had them when in fact they didn’t. Iraq really wasn’t set up in such a way that something like that would be kept from Saddam. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/8 "2009-07-15T21:26:20Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > And not only did Iraq want Iran think they had WMDs, Iran wanted the US to believe it so we would attack their longtime enemy. What are you saying, that [Ahmed Chalabi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi) was an Iranian agent who suckered the US into doing the Ayatollah’s will? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/9 "2009-07-15T22:03:24Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Why would he not have known? The guy was the supreme leader of his nation after all, and ruled with an iron fist. If anyone in the country knew about possible WMD it was Saddam. The alternative would be that his advisers were so afraid of him they just kept bullshitting him about the state of the program and never let him find out the truth. I don’t think that’s how it really happened, but it makes for a good cautionary tale. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/10 "2009-07-15T22:07:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The alternative would be that his advisers were so afraid of him they just kept bullshitting him about the state of the program and never let him find out the truth. I don’t think that’s how it really happened, but it makes for a good cautionary tale. That is actually the scenario that I was thinking about. I have no idea how feasible it was, though! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/11 "2009-07-15T22:10:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’d have to say that there isn’t much chance that his advisers told him he had them when in fact they didn’t. Iraq really wasn’t set up in such a way that something like that would be kept from Saddam. During the Battle of Berlin at the end of World War II, Hitler didn’t realize for five days that SS General Steiner didn’t have enough troops to break the Russian salient and keep them from taking the city. His generals certainly knew that, but they either didn’t tell him, or when they tried to, he didn’t believe them. One of the problems that a dictator with a reputation for tyranny faces is that his subordinates come to fear him and fear making him unhappy, so they’re less likely to give him bad news, and so he tends to have an overly optimistic view of his nation’s condition. I’m not saying that that necessarily happened in the case of Saddam and WMDs, but it’s a failing that dictatorships often fall prey to. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/12 "2009-07-15T22:17:11Z")
Chairman Mao was gaslighted for a couple of years about the fictional benefits of the Great Leap Forward, so it isn’t like people are unable to hide the truth from an egomaniac. However, Saddam’s fiction lasted for much longer, so even setting aside the evidence that he knew he had no WMD, it is hard to believe that Saddam would be in the dark for a good part of a decade prior to the invasion. (As in, from Clinton’s 1998 bombing raids to 2003’s invasion.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/13 "2009-07-15T22:35:52Z")
_Management Secrets of Saddam Hussein_, 798 pgs. Remainder House, $29.95. Amazon ranking, 114,329, just below\* So, You Want to Be a Leper!..\* ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/14 "2009-07-15T22:48:17Z")
Let’s put a little context into this latest wondering about how to make excuses for GW Bush. Here’s how things were being argued before we went and conquered Iraq: [If War Commences and WMD’s Are Found, What Then?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=158436) [QUOTE=anonplz] Would that be Bush’s biggest PR victory yet? Would that be reason enough to expect Sean Penn to shut up and go back to acting? [/QUOTE] charming stuff. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/15 "2009-07-15T23:44:15Z")
He actually did have a considerable amount of chemical weapons IIRC, but not the bio weapons we feared. He did have some supplies to make nuclear stuff but never got it going. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/16 "2009-07-15T23:52:07Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > …He did have some supplies to make nuclear stuff but never got it going. You mean, like, aluminum? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/17 "2009-07-15T23:58:09Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > He actually did have a considerable amount of chemical weapons IIRC, but not the bio weapons we feared. He did have some supplies to make nuclear stuff but never got it going. Do you mean like the chemical energy stored in bullets? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/18 "2009-07-16T00:12:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mean, like, aluminum? No, he was definitely getting the equipment to get it, although was not nearly as far along as was thought. I think we can all thank that this was the case, no matter what out political persuasion. However, he definitely had chemical weapons stored and stockpiled, including impresive amounts of mustard gas, a primitive but nasty and effective weapon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/19 "2009-07-16T00:18:51Z")
The big problem with message boards is you can’t see if the other guy is keeping a straight face or not. ---
**Author:** ![PunkyPoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@PunkyPoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunkyPoo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148/20 "2009-07-16T00:21:37Z")
Saddam knew he didn’t have them. But knew he could build them within a fairly short window of time if needed. I think it’s clear he thought the US was bluffing. If anybody has a link to David Kay’s complete report, I’d love to see it. I read it years ago. Just googled and either missed it or couldn’t find it. If I remember correctly, Iraq did have: 1 - Medium range missiles that violated UN sanctions. 2 - The ability to equip the missiles with chemical and/or biological weapons. 3 - The mobile facilities capable of producing chemical and/or biological weapons. Though David Kay was clear that there were no stockpiles, I believe that he also said (which got much less press) that Iraq was capable from any point in time of producing WMDs within 6-12 months. Here’s a decent piece from the guardian: > **[David Kay's final report](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/03/usa.iraq)** > > When chief weapons inspector David Kay bluntly told the senate there were, in fact, no WMDs, he forced a humiliating U-turn in Washington and London. Now, in his first newspaper interview, he tells Julian Borger that the president must admit he got... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-saddam-hussein-actually-think-that-he-had-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons/503148.md?page=2)