# Did Something Change? \[Public attitudes following the San Bernardino shootings\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358 "2015-12-03T21:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/21 "2015-12-04T01:42:12Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Guess we should make the laws stricter and the background checks more stringent. The dealer transfers and BG checks that they are skipping today, risking 5 years in a federal pen? That doesn’t include any state penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/22 "2015-12-04T02:18:01Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > The dealer transfers and BG checks that they are skipping today, risking 5 years in a federal pen? That doesn’t include any state penalties. We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/23 "2015-12-04T02:18:03Z")
> [@Scandic](#): > > USA deserved this. Let’s not forget the hospital bombing i Afghanistan. Interesting perspective. If I were to set off a bomb on a school bus in Tel Aviv killing a bunch of Jewish school kids as a result of the bombing of Gaza, would your response be that “Israel deserved it”? How about if I kidnapped and raped Israeli girls instead and raped them? Would that be too much or would you say “Israel deserved that” or would you think that went too far? If so, why would deliberately murdering civilians be okay but raping them wouldn’t be? Similarly, what if some Jews upon finding out I was an Iranian national murdered me because of Iran’s supporting of Hezbollah’s blowing up a Jewish community center in Argentina? Would your response be “Iran deserved that”? For the record, I’d find above mentioned monstrous but am wondering about your thoughts since you feel that such actions can be justifiable. Thanks in advance and if you’d rather respond in the pit feel free to. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/24 "2015-12-04T02:41:53Z")
> [@Scandic](#): > > USA deserved this. Let’s not forget the hospital bombing i Afghanistan. And ‘Afghanistan’ ‘deserved’ the US invasion…those Taliban guys and all. And ‘Europe’ ‘deserved’ the second world war being inflicted on them. ‘Japan’ ‘deserved’ having an atomic bomb being dropped on them. And on, and on, and on. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/25 "2015-12-04T03:52:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. No. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/26 "2015-12-04T04:02:21Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. Yeah, no thanks. Figure out a way to get people to follow what I consider the draconian laws in place already and maybe we can go from there. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/27 "2015-12-04T04:14:34Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Radical muslims see our free, happy society getting along just fine without their religious mumbo-jumbo (and their own islamic countries **ridden** with religious violence) and stamp their little feet and shout ‘No fair!’. “riddled” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/28 "2015-12-04T04:52:36Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. > [@Bricker](#): > > No. Well, something is broken in a big way. I would like a fix that’s stronger than the idea that this is the price we pay for freedom. I’m comfortable with draconian. Let’s give that a shot for a while. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/29 "2015-12-04T05:08:58Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > California has some of the strongest gun laws in the country. And it made absolutely no difference. This is a very disingenuous argument to make. Are you trying to say that strong gun laws are supposed to create a force field that keeps guns out? Because they do not. It is still easily possible to go to another locale where guns are more readily available and then bring them to the strict-gun-law state and use them in a manner that is against those laws and a bunch of others. However, the cynic in me partially agrees with you. The strict gun laws aren’t working so let’s do away with them. Sure. Let’s do it your way. Because as it stands, murder is basically legal in the United States anyhow. As long as you are willing to pay the price with your own life you have the God-given, Constitutionally granted right to murder as many of your fellow citizens as you can before the stormtroopers arrive to exercise the same right upon you. It’s a pretty twisted system but it’s what you’ve got so you might as well make the best of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/30 "2015-12-04T05:21:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. Your mistake is thinking that pro-gun folks haven’t been involved in shaping rational gun laws. 41 states are shall issue or constitutional carry - and growing. But please, elaborate on the laws you’d like to craft. Make it the Democratic party platform. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/31 "2015-12-04T05:39:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > San Berna **r** dino. It was typo in that instance. Got it right in the title. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/32 "2015-12-04T05:55:46Z")
I thought things has turned a corner after Sandy Hook. I mean, those bodies piled up were elementary schoolchildren, for God’s sake. And dick happened. So yea, I’m expecting dick to happen again. I try not to be cynical but I have no reason for optimism about some things and this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/33 "2015-12-04T06:04:51Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > The _‘supporters of responsible gun legislation’_ have had their nice, neat little utopian ideals shattered. California has some of the strongest gun laws in the country. And it made absolutely no difference. We also have strict laws against murder, and that doesn’t stop people either, so by your logic, what’s the point of making it illegal to kill people? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/34 "2015-12-04T06:39:18Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I thought things has turned a corner after Sandy Hook. > I mean, those bodies piled up were elementary schoolchildren, for God’s sake. > > And dick happened. > > So yea, I’m expecting dick to happen again. > > I try not to be cynical but I have no reason for optimism about some things and this is one of them. That’s not being cynical, that’s understanding history. Sad as it is, that’s recognizing reality. As for the OP… what is it that changed? Are you saying that some policy changes are gonna to come out of this tragedy? If only… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/35 "2015-12-04T13:17:26Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Your mistake is thinking that pro-gun folks haven’t been involved in shaping rational gun laws. 41 states are shall issue or constitutional carry - and growing. But please, elaborate on the laws you’d like to craft. Make it the Democratic party platform. The same way that gun control has passed in the [past](http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/actions/actions_capitolmarch.html). And the NRA supported it. It just required that the Black Panthers start showing up with guns, and all of a sudden the opinion changed. This time, I would say if every American Muslim starts expressing their legal rights to ridiculously open carry, then support for gun control among NRA members (and such support is already [high](http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/28/strong-majority-of-americans-nra-members-back-gun-control)) will increase dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/36 "2015-12-04T13:34:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > There was a lot of initial speculation, most of it based on whichever ideology one has on who did it and why, then it got a bit quiet when the ties to terrorist groups started popping up. I think this is basically it. It got quiet because it is hard to keep “we need more restrictions on guns” separate from “we need more restrictions on guns for radical Muslims”. It didn’t happen with the crazy guy who shot up the PP clinic, because “we need more restrictions on guns for crazy people” is a mainstream position. What will be done going forward? Nothing. There are no reasonable, common-sense gun restrictions that will prevent this. AFAIK the guns used were legal, and there is no background check that is going to catch “this guy is going to shoot up a medical care center a few years from now”. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We’ve tried doing nothing and that hasn’t worked, so let’s go with draconian anti-gun laws. If the pro-gun folks don’t want to be involved in shaping rational gun laws, let’s craft some irrational ones instead. We aren’t going to do this, thank God, for the same reason we aren’t going to go with draconian anti-Muslim laws or draconian anti-crazy laws. Or draconian anti-murder laws. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/37 "2015-12-04T13:43:21Z")
Has “radicalization” always been a word? I keep seeing it used on the news discussing this latest shooting. If a Christian is convinced at church to do missionary work, has (s)he been radicalized? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/38 "2015-12-04T13:46:52Z")
I’m afraid what’s going to be needed to change things is more a competent mass murderer and much higher body counts, perpetrated by a right wing white Christian. That pair in San Bernardino were pikers- all those guns, all that ammo, all those bombs and only 14 killed? The end result isn’t people saying “fucking guns”, it’s people getting even more biased against Muslims. When you get “one of us” mowing down hundreds if not thousands in a large public gathering, then maybe things could change. But don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/39 "2015-12-04T15:26:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m afraid what’s going to be needed to change things is more a competent mass murderer and much higher body counts, perpetrated by a right wing white Christian. That pair in San Bernardino were pikers- all those guns, all that ammo, all those bombs and only 14 killed? The end result isn’t people saying “fucking guns”, it’s people getting even more biased against Muslims. When you get “one of us” mowing down hundreds if not thousands in a large public gathering, then maybe things could change. But don’t hold your breath. Even leaving aside the wishing for mass slaughter so you can get your political agenda through thingy, killing thousands is just so unrealistic by even a few people acting together and using only evil guns that it’s on par with your 1000 deer statement for ridiculousness. To get those kinds of numbers you are going to need air planes or bombs, and I just don’t think you’d get your agenda through in that case, Bob, so those deaths would really do you no good at all. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358/40 "2015-12-04T16:33:36Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Well, something is broken in a big way. I would like a fix that’s stronger than the idea that this is the price we pay for freedom. > > I’m comfortable with draconian. Let’s give that a shot for a while. Sure. And let’s have a national database for Muslims. And bug all mosques without a warrant. And kill the entire bloodline of anyone committing a terrorist act. Draconian doesn’t sound so good when it doesn’t match up with your own politics, does it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-something-change-public-attitudes-following-the-san-bernardino-shootings/739358.md?page=3)