# Did St Paul meet Jesus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697 "2003-08-12T18:31:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/1 "2003-08-12T18:31:37Z")
I have always assumed that, as an apostle, Paul personally knew Jesus, but Michael H. Hart in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History claims that it was doubtful they ever met. Is this conspiracy theory stuff or does it have any merit? What does the historical record say? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/2 "2003-08-12T18:34:24Z")
I meant to post this in General Questions, so go ahead and move it if you need to. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/3 "2003-08-12T18:39:19Z")
No, Saul was a persecutor of the New Jews or early christians. He never saw Jesus Christ while he was alive. On the day of his conversion, he does claim that God spoke to him. That should be close enuf…? ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/4 "2003-08-12T18:49:57Z")
Paul didn’t know anything about Jesus while Jesus was on Earth. After the ascension, Paul even because to persecute members of this nascent new religion within Judaism. His conversion to Christianity, documented in Acts, occured after he was blinded by a vision of Christ on the road to Damascus. If you believe Paul’s account, then he did know Jesus personally, albeit not corporeally. If you dismiss Christianity, then he didn’t. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/5 "2003-08-12T19:01:47Z")
Not unless you count hallucinations. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/6 "2003-08-12T19:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Not unless you count hallucinations. \*\* since there was a corroborating witness that Saul had indeed converted, it wasnt a simple hallucination. Youre only insane if youre the only one who hears God talk to you. If another heard the same story, then either both are crazy but with strangely connected stories or they really were telling the truth. [http://www.lapraik.com/cordeaux/GCSE%20Short%20course/st\_paul’s\_conversion.htm](http://www.lapraik.com/cordeaux/GCSE%20Short%20course/st_paul's_conversion.htm) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/7 "2003-08-12T19:24:18Z")
That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a hallucination. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/8 "2003-08-12T19:35:44Z")
Well, Paul and Jesus did meet once. After Jesus came down from the cross, had sex with Mary Magdalane, married that other chick called Mary and settled down into a normal, happy life of raising animals and children, he ran into the Apostle Paul proselytizing in the city square. Jesus calls him to task, saying that he never died and he’ll tell everyone that Paul is a liar, and Paul says: “Go ahead. Tell them now. Who’s going to believe you? You don’t understand how much people need G-d. I created the truth out of what people _wanted_ to hear.” [slightly paraphrased] Of course, it all turned out to be a dream – or rather, a demonic temptation, by Satan posing as a little girl. His Last Temptation, if you like. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/9 "2003-08-12T19:42:12Z")
Hunh…? my link died heres a quote from the site: > [@](#): > > Saul kept on threatening to kill the LORD’S followers. He even went to the high priest and asked for letters to their leaders in Damascus. He did this because he wanted to arrest and take to Jerusalem any man or woman who had accepted the LORD’S Way. 3When Saul had almost reached Damascus, a bright light from heaven suddenly flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice that said, “Saul! Saul! Why are you so cruel to me?” > 5"Who are you?" Saul asked. > “I am Jesus,” the LORD answered. “I am the one you are so cruel to. 6Now get up and go into the city, where you will be told what to do.” > 7The men with Saul stood there speechless. They had heard the voice, but they had not seen anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, and when he opened his eyes, he could not see a thing. Someone then led him by the hand to Damascus, 9and for three days he was blind and did not eat or drink. > 10A follower named Ananias lived in Damascus, and the LORD spoke to him in a vision. Ananias answered, “LORD, here I am.” > 11The LORD said to him, “Get up and go to the house of Judas on Straight Street. When you get there, you will find a man named Saul from the city of Tarsus. Saul is praying, 12and he has seen a vision. He saw a man named Ananias coming to him and putting his hands on him, so that he could see again.” > 13Ananias replied, “LORD, a lot of people have told me about the terrible things this man has done to your followers in Jerusalem. 14Now the chief priests have given him the power to come here and arrest anyone who worships in your name.” > 15The LORD said to Ananias, “Go! I have chosen him to tell foreigners, kings, and the people of Israel about me. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for worshiping in my name.” > 17Ananias left and went into the house where Saul was staying. Ananias placed his hands on him and said, “Saul, the LORD Jesus has sent me. He is the same one who appeared to you along the road. He wants you to be able to see and to be filled with the Holy Spirit.” > 18Suddenly something like fish scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see. He got up and was baptized. 19Then he ate and felt much better. Now. If it was a hallucination then the question becomes, how does a stranger (Ananais) who dislikes Saul by reputation, come to the same conclusion that Saul must preach to world about the word of Christ? How can 2 separate hallucinations be so congruent in context? Why would Ananais trust a persecutor of his religion become one if its preachers? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/10 "2003-08-12T21:03:19Z")
You’re assuming, of course, that Luke was 100% accurate in writing his gospel. As opposed to writing down the stories told him by Paul. Assuming, again, that the Luke who’s popularly believed to have written both the gospel of that name and the Acts of the Apostles is the real author of either. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/11 "2003-08-12T21:19:34Z")
Then that is a matter of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/12 "2003-08-12T21:26:34Z")
According to Acts 22:9, Paul’s companion’s could not hear the voice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/13 "2003-08-12T21:27:49Z")
I mean companions, not “companion’s.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/14 "2003-08-12T21:37:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*Then that is a matter of faith. \*\* On _your_ side of the question, perhaps. On the rational side, it’s a matter of unreliable and inconsistent evidence making an unconvincing case for things being as the more rigid of the Faithful wish it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/15 "2003-08-12T21:49:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I have always assumed that, as an apostle, Paul personally knew Jesus, but Michael H. Hart in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History claims that it was doubtful they ever met. Is this conspiracy theory stuff or does it have any merit? I don’t know of anyone who claimed, in the first place, that Paul met the living Jesus. Paul himself never claims to have met the man. Instead, Paul has some sort of experience on the road with a sort of spiritual Jesus. I’ve heard, though can’t confirm, that in the Pauline account of the event, there was some controversy over the passage, which is translated sometimes as “[Christ] was revealed TO him” and sometimes “[Christ] was revealed IN him”: two translations with radically different theological implications. > [@](#): > > You’re assuming, of course, that Luke was 100% accurate in writing his gospel. As opposed to writing down the stories told him by Paul. Did Luke ever meet Paul? I’m not sure he ever did (or that anyone claims he ever did). Certainly, Luke’s account of Paul gives a radically different spin on who Paul was than Paul’s own letters do. Luke’s Gospel and Acts are much later documents who’s main focus seems to be establishing the idea of empowered Apostolic authority. I think we can assume that Paul’s own accounts of his own experiences should count for more than Luke’s later retelling. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/16 "2003-08-12T21:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*According to Acts 22:9, Paul’s companion’s could not hear the voice. \*\* It’s even more confusing and contradictory than that, **Diogenes**. In two different places in the same book, that’s reversed. Acts 9:7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. Acts 22:9 Now those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me. So, which was it? Did they see the light but not hear the voice? Or did they hear the voice and not see the light? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/17 "2003-08-12T23:22:16Z")
Just for myself, I think it would have been better all around if Saul of Tarsus had taken that left turn at Albquequrqe and avoided the road to Damascus altogether. With Paul, Xtian thought falls from religion into the lifeless grasp of theology. More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/18 "2003-08-13T00:04:58Z")
Well, Jesus might not have met St. Paul, but He might have visited Minneapolis. (At least, if you believe in the Book of Mormon.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/19 "2003-08-13T00:07:27Z")
Drag that man out and shoot him. I’ll swear out the warrant later. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697/20 "2003-08-13T00:07:59Z")
Is it just me, or does it seem as though S/Paul just changed his persecution of Jesus followers from outward to inward? I mean, instead of threatening to kill them, he just made their lives a living hell with his ideas of how to live. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-st-paul-meet-jesus/194697.md?page=2)