# Did Syphilis Come From the New World or the Old World?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [April 4, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129 "2004-04-04T02:40:26Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129/1 "2004-04-04T02:40:26Z")

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This has come up several times in various SDMB threads but has never had its own. I am a subsciber to the theory that syphilis was an “import” from the New World **to** Europe (and through Europe to Asia and Africa) as described in [this](http://www.archaeology.org/9701/newsbriefs/syphilis.html) and several other articles and sources. My reasons for believing this are the timing (the first unmistakably recognizable diagnoses of syphilis appearing ca. 1500, its initial prevalence among sailors and coastal towns, and the remains of pre-Contact Indians (particularly in the regions of earliest Spanish contact) who had symptoms completely compatible with syphilis.

However, this seems to be a controversial theory. Some are outraged for purely PC reasons, but several medical historians disagree as well. What side do you take and what is the evidence that supports you? Also, could the 16th century syphilis outbreak have been a “superflu” brought about by New World & Old World strains of STDs intermingling?

Thanks for any opinions or info.

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**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129/2 "2004-04-04T03:50:39Z")

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Dunno. Looking through “Guns, Germs, and Steel,” author Jared Diamond leaves it open-noting however, that (as you pointed out)

> [@](#):
>
> When syphilis was first definitively recorderd in Europe in **1495** , its pustules often covered the body from the head to the knees, caused flesh to fall off people’s faces and led to death within a few months. By 1546, syphilis had evolved into the disease with the symptoms so well known to us today.

Considering the dates involved and the rapid mutation from a form which rapidly burns through a victim (who would want to _schtup_ someone whose face is sloughing off?) to a more benign ( and hence more readily spread) form, I’d be willing to consider that it arose in the New World.

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129/3 "2004-04-04T05:17:52Z")

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A previous thread which might help…or not. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171647&highlight=syphilis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171647&highlight=syphilis)

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-syphilis-come-from-the-new-world-or-the-old-world/238129/4 "2004-04-04T05:30:52Z")

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…and another…[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=140301&highlight=syphilis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=140301&highlight=syphilis)