# Did tall races of 8' ever exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109 "2019-04-05T22:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/41 "2019-04-08T21:30:49Z")
[Poor guy is having a hard time finding a receptive audience](https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/326768-did-ancient-tall-races-actually-exist/). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/42 "2019-04-08T21:41:24Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Yes… 😕 There are ongoing **official** Treaty Settlements to make good where land was taken unlawfully (by the Crown or settlers)… we even have a Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations… (Not quite sure what you mean by “movements”.) My mistake. I’m not particularly well-versed on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/43 "2019-04-08T21:45:39Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Poor guy is having a hard time finding a receptive audience](https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/326768-did-ancient-tall-races-actually-exist/). Heh, that thread got cornfielded while I was reading it. It’s rough when you can’t even gain traction on a site like that. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/44 "2019-04-08T21:50:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Heh, that thread got cornfielded while I was reading it. Me, too. deleted between pages 2 and 3. Now I’ll never know the rest of the brilliant arguments from the guy saying that Easter Island is a remnant of Lemura and animals learn the sin of homosexuality from humans. (He also had a post at a site called Above Top Secret, but it was deleted between Google indexing it and me trying to read it.) ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/45 "2019-04-08T23:06:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > My mistake. I’m not particularly well-versed on the topic. No worries. 🙂 I was just a bit puzzled (though I’m sure there are those who feel the Treaty Settlements don’t go far enough or are fast enough for them). And conversely those who feel we don’t / shouldn’t need to make settlements. The process ain’t perfect, but it is ongoing, and is working to redress old wrongs. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/46 "2019-04-08T23:38:43Z")
actually I forwarded his thread and his website to the NZ link that was given so he might not come back ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/47 "2019-04-09T02:14:49Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > At most? This is actually the goal. Prove that there were white people in New Zealand before the Māori and then you don’t have to honour the Treaty of Waitangi because it was “our” (white people’s) land all along! The giant bit is just a red herring. > > [https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-05-2017/the-white-tangata-whenua-and-other-bullshit-from-the-one-new-zealand-crew/#.WSHrX6848mY.twitter](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-05-2017/the-white-tangata-whenua-and-other-bullshit-from-the-one-new-zealand-crew/#.WSHrX6848mY.twitter) Thanks for posting that link. I remember the Titford man and his whining supporters. Interesting to see the connections with One New Zealand and Don Brash. He should have stayed as Reserve Bank governor and kept his nose out of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/48 "2019-04-09T02:30:59Z")
I’ve come back to NZ after nearly 20 years away. I wasn’t aware of any of this until following the OP’s links. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/49 "2019-04-09T02:49:47Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Not going to weigh in on the supposed validity of these unsubstantiated rumors, but if I heard of an 8’ skeleton I wouldn’t think “biblical”, or even “giant”. I’d just think “tall”. There are people alive now who are over eight feet tall and so far as I know they aren’t considered to be a different species. > > Now you find something standing 20’ or more, and then I’ll …wait for independent verification. ditto. And I’m sure there were “giants” in biblical times. Any people who averaged 6" taller than the people who wrote the Bible would have been giants, after all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/50 "2019-04-09T05:27:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > (He also had a post at a site called Above Top Secret, but it was deleted between Google indexing it and me trying to read it.) FYI you could probably still read the Google cached version of it… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/51 "2019-04-09T05:34:56Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > OK, so just a new twist on last century’s popularized belief that the Maori had themselves replaced (read: killed off and probably eaten) the earlier and more primitive Moriori, and were thus not _really_ indigenous. :rolleyes: That’s just an (admittedly wrongheaded) twist on what actually happened to the Moriori on the Chathams, though. Not that they were earlier or more primitive. The killed and (sometimes) eaten part I mean. Not that that didn’t happen in New Zealand proper either. Amongst non-Moriori Maori, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/52 "2019-04-09T20:23:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s just an (admittedly wrongheaded) twist on what actually happened to the Moriori on the Chathams, though. Not that they were earlier or more primitive. The killed and (sometimes) eaten part I mean. Not that that didn’t happen in New Zealand proper either. Amongst non-Moriori Maori, I mean. Yes, general understanding now is that the Moriori emigrated to the Chatham Islands around 1500 from NZ, with cultural and linguistic divergence occurring over the next few hundred years until a couple of Maori tribes invaded in 1835, killing many of the inhabitants and enslaving the rest until the early 1860s. Back early last century though , and persisting for quite a while (I’m pretty sure I got this version at school in the 70s), was the idea that the Moriori represented an earlier wave of migration to the NZ mainland _and_ the Chathams, and that later Maori colonists had killed off the peaceful earlier settlers before European contact, with the Chatham Islanders as the last remnant of this indigenous people. Whether the initial intent or not, this version of events with later Maori colonization was seen by some to offer a rationale by which Maori territorial claims might be contested or undermined. (Perhaps cynically) the OP’s claims appear to be a new variant on the same old theme. ---
**Author:** ![tangatawhenua16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tangatawhenua16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tangatawhenua16)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/53 "2019-04-10T08:54:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > _raises hand_ > > I say no because there is no evidence. Yes. That’s what I wanted to hear. There is no evidence that is public. And absence of evidence does not always equal evidence of absence, but yes, every find (the last one in 2008 by someone I know where the archaeologist ordered the skeleton bulldozed!) ) is either false or true but eliminated (most are false). So Polynesians got here 780 years ago. What of a human bone…a fossilized human bone, was found here in NZ. As the only mammals before Polynesians were the bat, how would people react to that (and that’s not even what we are trying to uncover). ---
**Author:** ![tangatawhenua16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tangatawhenua16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tangatawhenua16)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/54 "2019-04-10T08:56:16Z")
That’s a big assumption on all levels. I love it though, I truly do. Keep watching. ---
**Author:** ![tangatawhenua16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tangatawhenua16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tangatawhenua16)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/55 "2019-04-10T09:00:49Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > tangatawhenua16, let us know when there’s a publication in a refereed scientific journal, because until then there’s nothing to discuss. Do you think if evidence of a pre-Polynesian people of tall stature were revealed to the authorities they’d applaud it? Political Maori totally reject the notion they were not here first. But many Maori do not believe they were first. It depends on what tribe (and therefore what part of the country) you come from. But I am not here to convince anyone, yet. I’m just content to have them state their opinion on the possibility publicly - for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![tangatawhenua16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tangatawhenua16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tangatawhenua16)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/56 "2019-04-10T09:03:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > There are movements in NZ to return land to the Maori which was taken by white settlers. > > But if the Maori were, as the theory goes, themselves violent invaders who slaughtered innocent white settlers? Then all that land rightfully belongs to white people in the first place! Racist hokum. No. The treaty was with those who held the land when the British signed the treaty. All that changes is the title of who were the original native people. I’m not sure why you bring in a racist tone to all this. It’s a mistake many make. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/57 "2019-04-10T09:16:31Z")
remember I said I forwarded the thread to NZ officials? Heres the response I took out my real info tho Isaac McIvor \ To:me Cc: Antrim Archaeologists , Bev Parslow , Pauline Vela , Greg Walter ‎Apr‎ ‎8 at ‎6‎:‎38‎ ‎PM Kia ora Thank you for taking the time to forward those links to Heritage New Zealand Pouhere Taonga. We are taking this matter seriously and will continue to monitor the posts should it become clearer that archaeological sites are being (or at risk of being) damaged. Kind regards Zac Isaac (Zac) McIvor I Archaeologist - Poutairangahia I Heritage New Zealand Pouhere Taonga | Northern Regional Office, Private Box 105291, Auckland City 1143 | Ph: (64 9) 307 9920 | DDI: (64 9) 307 9933 | Cell: 027 605 4341. Visit www.heritage.org.nz and learn more about New Zealand’s heritage places. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/58 "2019-04-10T11:48:49Z")
What is the Maori translation of **tangatawhenua16** is screwed? Something along the lines of “You’re fucked, mate,” I suppose. As a trained but unused archaeologist I am finding this delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/59 "2019-04-10T13:07:42Z")
tangatawhenua16 writes: \> But I am not here to convince anyone, yet. What’s the point of posting to the SDMB if you don’t want to convince anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109/60 "2019-04-10T14:52:21Z")
> [@tangatawhenua16](#): > > So Polynesians got here 780 years ago. What of a human bone…a fossilized human bone, was found here in NZ. As the only mammals before Polynesians were the bat, how would people react to that (and that’s not even what we are trying to uncover). What was the point of your General Questions thread on the time it takes for bone to fossilize (by which I assume you mean petrify) when you ignore the information that there is no necessary relationship between the age of a bone and the degree of fossilization? A mineralized or petrified bone could be less than 780 years old. Also, how do you know it’s a mammal bone? Moa bones were also large and dense Unless you are an expert on vertebrate osteology (which you clearly are not) I doubt you could reliably identify it as a mammal bone, let alone a human bone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-tall-races-of-8-ever-exist/832109.md?page=4)