# Did Teddy Kennedy doom universal health care multiple times **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300 "2013-03-29T22:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/1 "2013-03-29T22:21:35Z")
So I have heard that Ted Kennedy didn’t want [Nixon’s](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-08-28/opinions/36829695_1_health-care-health-insurance-insurance-exchanges) health care plan to get passed because he felt that would be giving the republicans a victory that Kennedy felt should go to the democrats. So he blocked it. Anyone know how true that is? [Jimmy Carter](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42289.html) said during his administration Kennedy blocked his health plan out of spite and in preparation for the 1980 primary election. Then there is the fact that (not that this is his fault) Kennedy died and the dems lost the 60th seat in the senate. They still got health reform passed, but if so that means Kennedy intentionally blocked UHC twice and almost got it blocked a third time by dying. So why is fighting for UHC considered such a big part of his legacy? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/2 "2013-03-30T01:18:34Z")
This along with Ted Kennedy’s long-running support for the IRA and Chappadquick (apologies if its spelled wrong) is why he’s no hero even to liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/3 "2013-03-30T01:23:56Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This along with Ted Kennedy’s long-running support for the IRA and Chappadquick (apologies if its spelled wrong) is why he’s no hero even to liberals. Kennedy was not a supporter of the IRA. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/4 "2013-03-30T02:56:00Z")
Kennedy was a selfish politician. He sank Carter’s chance at re-election, and dragged down many other Democrats by wielding the family influence. He was also an accident of history. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/5 "2013-03-30T02:59:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Kennedy was a selfish politician. He sank Carter’s chance at re-election, and dragged down many other Democrats by wielding the family influence. He was also an accident of history. Carter’s re-election chances were sank by Carter. Hell, Kennedy probably would have beaten Carter if it hadn’t been for the hostage crisis. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/6 "2013-03-30T03:49:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Carter’s re-election chances were sank by Carter. Hell, Kennedy probably would have beaten Carter if it hadn’t been for the hostage crisis. It’s just an aspect of Kennedy’s political style whether Carter had a chance or not. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/7 "2013-03-30T04:02:25Z")
There were not 59 votes for UHC in 2009. That’s a figment of the OP’s imagination. Ben Nelson, Max Baucus and other conservative and moderate Democrats sank the public option before it even came up for a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/8 "2013-03-30T04:08:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s just an aspect of Kennedy’s political style whether Carter had a chance or not. How exactly did he “sink” Carter’s chances at getting re-elected. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/9 "2013-03-30T04:23:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > There were not 59 votes for UHC in 2009. That’s a figment of the OP’s imagination. Ben Nelson, Max Baucus and other conservative and moderate Democrats sank the public option before it even came up for a vote. Even the public option wasn’t universal health care. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/10 "2013-03-30T04:23:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How exactly did he “sink” Carter’s chances at getting re-elected. I’m not arguing the point about sinking. Kennedy primaried Carter because he thought he had inherited the throne, not by any reasonable standard for challenging the sitting president in his own party. Kennedy could never have become president with the spectre of Chappaquidick looming over him. He split the Democratic Party in the election. It doesn’t matter if Carter ever had a chance at re-election, Kennedy had no one’s interests in mind except his own. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/11 "2013-03-30T05:23:27Z")
Not this B.S. again. :rolleyes: Why do so many people believe Ted Kennedy gave Carter a run for his money? Kennedy only won a handful of states and couldn’t even articulate why he wanted to be President. Jimmy Carter was an incompetent, weak leader. He inherited a poor economy and his ineptness made it far worse. With staggeringly high inflation, high unemployment, high gas prices with shortages, and a black eye in foreign affairs, there was no way Carter was going to get re-elected, and Kennedy did nothing to cause that. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/12 "2013-03-30T05:37:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Kennedy was not a supporter of the IRA. Well not an open and active supporter, but he certainly was quite sympathetic to their cause, for example arguing Unionist people in NI be given a chance to be “repatriated”. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Even the public option wasn’t universal health care. It was _universal single-payer health care_, from what I’ve seen UHC is defined as 90 to 95 percent of a population being covered regardless of by what methods there are covered. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/13 "2013-03-30T05:38:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > There were not 59 votes for UHC in 2009. That’s a figment of the OP’s imagination. Ben Nelson, Max Baucus and other conservative and moderate Democrats sank the public option before it even came up for a vote. The OP says _almost blocked_, not blocked and he’s talking about the health reform bill in general not necessarily one with a public option or a single-payer one. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/14 "2013-03-30T11:57:06Z")
Just how much latitude are we supposed to give the OP on definitions here? He writes “UHC,” but we’re supposed to understand that UHC means something that isn’t actually universal, but is more than Obamacare, but may or may not involve a public option, but it does involve health insurance, just not in the way I think it means. And I don’t know much about Carter’s health care plan, but some quick googling makes it seem like Carter and Kennedy were on the same page initially, but that Carter watered down his own proposal. Maybe someone can explain why they think that Kennedy is responsible for sabotaging Carter’s plan. ETA: I mean something more than quotes of Carter grousing. I’m asking what Kennedy actually did, not how Carter feels about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/15 "2013-03-31T06:08:54Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It was _universal single-payer health care_, from what I’ve seen UHC is defined as 90 to 95 percent of a population being covered regardless of by what methods there are covered. The public option was not single-payer. It would have been a premium-supported insurance company that would have competed with existing insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/16 "2013-03-31T12:21:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just how much latitude are we supposed to give the OP on definitions here? He writes “UHC,” but we’re supposed to understand that UHC means something that isn’t actually universal, but is more than Obamacare, but may or may not involve a public option, but it does involve health insurance, just not in the way I think it means. > > And I don’t know much about Carter’s health care plan, but some quick googling makes it seem like Carter and Kennedy were on the same page initially, but that Carter watered down his own proposal. Maybe someone can explain why they think that Kennedy is responsible for sabotaging Carter’s plan. > > ETA: I mean something more than quotes of Carter grousing. I’m asking what Kennedy actually did, not how Carter feels about it. You can have UHC without single payer. European nations like the Netherlands have a functioning UHC system that is based on private insurers and private medical centers. So UHC would be a system that covers everyone (or almost everyone), is affordable and accessible and has cost control measures to slow the rate of medical inflation. Had we gotten UHC in the 70s, I doubt our health care costs would be almost 20% of GDP like they are now. Not only that, but the overton window would be moved to the left and the tea party would probably be defending UHC as of 2013. Chris Dodd rejected the idea that Kennedy cost Carter UHC. So there is that as a counterpoint. I don’t know what independent verification there is for Carter’s POV. [http://blogs.reuters.com/summits/2010/09/20/dodd-rejects-carter-criticism-of-ted-kennedy/](http://blogs.reuters.com/summits/2010/09/20/dodd-rejects-carter-criticism-of-ted-kennedy/) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-teddy-kennedy-doom-universal-health-care-multiple-times/654300/17 "2013-04-01T03:05:08Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well not an open and active supporter, but he certainly was quite sympathetic to their cause, for example arguing Unionist people in NI be given a chance to be “repatriated”. That’s not the same as supporting the IRA. That’s not even in the same ballpark.