# Did Thanksgiving originate as a slur against Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 10, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517 "2011-07-10T17:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/21 "2011-11-17T13:33:55Z")
> [@Bisected8](#): > > It probably bears noting that while many European Christians were Catholic, America (i.e. the country that celebrates Thanksgiving) has historically been mostly protestant, so how much influence what the Pope said would carry in the 14th century is neither here nor there. Not to mention the unlikelihood of the Pope excluding non-European Christians (given the Catholic church split from the Orthodox church on the premise of spreading Christianity). Considering that the first American Thanksgiving was at the Plymouth Colony, which was settled by Protestants, all of whom were filled with antipathy toward Catholicism, it seems doubly unlikely that they would pay any attention to a proclamation from the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/22 "2011-11-17T15:20:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > July 2004 was when Obama delivered the keynote speech at the Democratic Convention. It’s traditionally a spot reserved for rising political stars. And, also, to answer the question, Common is from Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/23 "2011-11-17T15:34:47Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Considering that the first American Thanksgiving was at the Plymouth Colony, which was settled by Protestants, all of whom were filled with antipathy toward Catholicism, it seems doubly unlikely that they would pay any attention to a proclamation from the Pope. Some Texans believe the [first American Thanksgiving](http://www.texasalmanac.com/topics/history/timeline/first-thanksgiving) was a Catholic affair… > [@](#): > > A new Thanksgiving tradition has taken root in Texas. El Paso residents now claim the first Thanksgiving in North America. The modern event, first observed in April 1989, commemorates a day of thanksgiving celebrated by Spanish explorer Juan de Oñate and his expedition on April 30, 1598… The expedition–men, women, children & livestock–had a grueling trip North across the Chihuahuan desert. > [@](#): > > The Rio Grande was the salvation of the expedition, however. After recuperating for 10 days, Oñate ordered a day of thanksgiving for the survival of the expedition. Included in the event was a feast, supplied with game by the Spaniards and with fish by the natives of the region. A mass was said by the Franciscan missionaries traveling with the expedition. And finally, Oñate read La Toma – the taking – declaring the land drained by the Great River to be the possession of King Philip II of Spain. > > Some historians call this one of the truly important dates in the history of the continent, marking the beginning of Spanish colonization in the American Southwest. The article goes on to explain how anybody can proclaim a “thanksgiving.” Then gives the history of our current celebration of turkey & football… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/24 "2011-11-17T16:26:28Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Some Texans believe the [first American Thanksgiving](http://www.texasalmanac.com/topics/history/timeline/first-thanksgiving) was a Catholic affair… Yeah, every year around this time, some Texas humorist dusts off that story and tries to re-imagine Thanksgiving. It’s usually along the lines of, “Wouldn’t it be great if we had Mexican style Thanksgiving, and could eat yummy tacos and enchiladas instead of those dry turkeys the Puritns made us eat?” It wasn’t that funny the first time, but every year, some newspaper columnist who thinks he’s the first will do a similar column. Maybe I’m just grumpy because, in Texas, I’m ALREADY forced to eat Mexican food way more often than I’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/25 "2011-11-17T17:43:04Z")
Even if Thanksgiving _did_ originate from a papal decree to celebrate the fall of Granada, it doesn’t mean it’s a “slur against Muslims”. Does anyone think the Fourth of July is a “slur” against the English? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/26 "2011-11-17T17:45:12Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > “On November 25th, 1491 > Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada > King Ferdinand gave thanks to God for victory > And the Pope of Rome declared this date to forever be > A day of Thanksgiving for all European Christians” Dude has his kings wrong (it was Isabel’s Castille which conquered Granada, not Ferdinand’s Aragon), and his dates as well (it was January 2nd, 1492). I’m amazed he doesn’t think the Pope was in Avignon… > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Also, for the record, Granada surrendered to King Ferdinand on January 2, 1942, and the thanksgiving mass was ordered by Ferdinand, and not the pope. To Isabel, dude, Isabel! :Pursues Captain Amazing with a pillow embroidered with the double-quartered Lion and Tower: ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/27 "2011-11-17T20:37:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Get real. > > You want to look for hidden meanings in this:Go right ahead and have your fun. > > But this?There’s no hidden meaning there. It’s as straight forward as lyrics can be. I should have been more clear, but I wasn’t referring to the specific quote in the OP. I was commenting on the generalizations made in some of the other posts. My second point was a follow-up to my first, and not about the quote in the OP, although I see how one could easily assume that. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/28 "2011-11-18T08:09:28Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > To Isabel, dude, Isabel! :Pursues Captain Amazing with a pillow embroidered with the double-quartered Lion and Tower: The Captain in black fled across the desert and the pillowslinger followed. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/29 "2011-11-18T08:29:51Z")
That’s not the only ridiculous claim Ras Kass makes in his song. He claims that AIDS is man made and a form of biological warfare waged by white people against black people. I’d say his history is dodgy at best. And surprisingly homophobic. He also calls people from Iraq, Lebanon, and Turkey black, which kind of confuses me. I mean, has he never seen a picture or Saddam Hussein? Apparently, I’m being lied to by history, and every major newspaper and television station, and Wikipedia. > **[Turkish people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people)** > > Turkish people or Turks (Turkish: Türkler) are the largest Turkic people who speak various dialects of the Turkish language and form a majority in Turkey and the disputed state of Northern Cyprus. In addition, centuries-old ethnic Turkish communities still live across other former territories of the Ottoman Empire. Article 66 of the Turkish Constitution defines a "Turk" as: "Anyone who is bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship." While the legal use of the term "Turkish" as ... > **[Iraqis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_people)** > > Iraqis (Arabic: العراقيون) are people who originate from the country of Iraq. > Iraqi Arabs are the largest ethnic group in Iraq, followed by Iraqi Kurds, then Iraqi Turkmen as the third largest ethnic group. Other ethnic groups include Yazidis, Assyrians, Mandaeans, Armenians, and Marsh Arabs. > Iraq consists largely of most of ancient Mesopotamia, the native land of the indigenous Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian, and Babylonian civilizations, which was subsequently conquered, invaded and ruled by f... > **[Lebanese people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_people)** > > Lebanese diaspora: > Europe > Overseas Why even make such a claim? I understand how the media and scientists are keeping the real origin of AIDS a secret for the White Conspiracy, but how do they make everyone from Turkey look like they’re white? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/30 "2011-11-18T08:39:21Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Why even make such a claim? I understand how the media and scientists are keeping the real origin of AIDS a secret for the White Conspiracy, but how do they make everyone from Turkey look like they’re white? Same way they do it with people in north-Saharian Africa. This is the kind of guy who claims that the Ptolemaics were black, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/31 "2011-11-18T08:56:47Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I should have been more clear, but I wasn’t referring to the specific quote in the OP. I was commenting on the generalizations made in some of the other posts. So you were just making a general statement about how it’s wrong for people to make generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/32 "2011-11-18T09:09:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you were just making a general statement about how it’s wrong for people to make generalizations. Generally. ---
**Author:** ![EarlyMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@EarlyMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarlyMan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/33 "2011-11-19T00:03:22Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > You need to distinguish between [Thanksgiving](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving), the American/Canadian/Dutch/etc. holiday, and [thanksgiving](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thanksgiving), the act of giving praise and thanks, especially to God. The Pope’s declaration (if there was one; I’m no expert in the area) would have been declaring a day dedicated to the latter, entirely unrelated to the former. Well, since the OP capitalized Thanksgiving (as did you), I guess he’s referring to the former, rather than the latter (as in your original tedious question). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/34 "2011-11-19T00:19:00Z")
_Is it any wonder I’ve got too much hate in my mind? Ticking away with my sanity I’ve got too much hate in my mind It’s hard to disbelieve so many wild claims I’ve got too much hate in my mind And it’s ticking away ticking away at my brains._ ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/35 "2011-11-19T00:39:25Z")
While I enjoy this song for the entertainment value, virtually nothing in the song stands up to scrutiny. For gosh sakes he claims the first whites were banished from Africa because the “original man” viewed albinism as a sin. I’ve heard Ras Kass was in jail when he wrote the song and was heavily influenced by Eldridge Cleaver, the Isis Papers, and other Afrocentric writings. This was very popular in 90s underground rap music. ---
**Author:** ![peopleschamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@peopleschamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peopleschamp)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/36 "2011-11-26T00:36:57Z")
Yes In 1492 the pope of rome did say that was a day of thanksgiving to all european christians. and the only reason it falls on the fourth thursday in the month of nov is due to abraham lincoln making it a national holiday. is the song accurate throughout no but is that part true yes it is ---
**Author:** ![peopleschamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@peopleschamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peopleschamp)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/37 "2011-11-26T00:38:56Z")
the moors were defeated on nov 25 that is facr ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/38 "2011-11-26T01:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. > > No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union. > > Oh, and death to Islam. The pope told me to say that. I had no idea that was in there. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/39 "2011-11-26T01:12:54Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I was recently listening to a song, “Ras Kass - The Nature of the Threat”, which gives a somewhat revisionist account of history. At one point the rapper claims that: > > "On November 25th, 1491 > Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada That date was a Wednesday. Thanksgiving is very specifically celebrated on a Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517/40 "2011-11-26T16:43:33Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I’d say his history is dodgy at best. And surprisingly homophobic. Why surprising? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-thanksgiving-originate-as-a-slur-against-muslims/588517.md?page=3)