# Did the 9/11 terrorists win? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595 "2002-06-06T03:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/1 "2002-06-06T03:05:11Z")
This is not meant as a “If X does or doesn’t happen, the terrorists will already have won”. What if the Pentagon/WTC attacks were an ends rather than a means? What if their goal was merely to strike at the Great Satan in an extremely visible way? No one’s claimed responsibility for it, nor have a list of demands been presented. Could the 9/11 attacks just been “it”? I mean, they had to know the US (and the world) would not sit by and let such an action go. Nor would we cower or refuse to rebuild the WTC or Pentagon, as well as our nation. While I know the defiance is good for patriotism, does it really make a statement to those terrorists? Was the fact there are no more 110-story twin towers already give the terrorists their victory? Did they win just by succeeding on that day? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/2 "2002-06-06T03:09:47Z")
Ummmm, Osama bin Ladin had claimed credit for the attacks, and much as I might distrust the military, there is no way in hell that they would go over and do what they have been doing in Afghanistahn unless they had damn good evidence that someone in the area was responsible/claimed responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/3 "2002-06-06T03:20:00Z")
Osama bin Laden seems to have a fairly extensive wish list for the world besides just “Blow stuff up”. (Get the U.S. to withdraw from the Middle East and especially Saudi Arabia, replace Israel with an Islamic Palestinian state, reverse Western predominance over the Muslim world, and ultimately unite all Muslims around the world in an theocratic empire or Islamic Caliphate which would be ruled according to a strict interpretation of Islamic law.) So, I’d say to the extent those goals aren’t met, he will ultimately have failed. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/4 "2002-06-06T03:21:14Z")
What I meant to say, was that if the Towers get rebuilt (or whatever we do so they won’t “already have won”), would it really be that much a show of defiance? Would the terrorists say “Gee, America still stands, we failed”? Or was the destructions of the WTC/Pentagon good enough for their victory? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/5 "2002-06-06T03:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > No one’s claimed responsibility for it What? [Osama.](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/21/ret.bin.laden.translation/index.html) [Osama.](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/index.html) [Osama.](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/12/26/ret.bin.laden.statement/index.html) > [@](#): > > “Three months after our blessed attack against the main infidel West, especially America, and two months after the infidel’s attacks on Islam, we would like to talk about some of the implications of those incidents,” bin Laden said. So, what, is it all a big frameup? Or did the CIA just pick his name out of a hat, and sic the combined might of the United States Armed Forces on the Taliban, “just because”? ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/6 "2002-06-06T03:41:21Z")
No such conspiracy theories, I have no doubt it was OBL. I meant to say no one has publicly claimed responsibility and presented publicly a list of demands. So that’s what made me ask about the motivation. I used a poor choice of words and I apologize. My OP more concerned with the terrorists goals. Were the WTC/Pentagon enough? Or did they seriously think they could cower America? Have they already had their victory, whether or not we rebuild the WTC, Pentagon, etc? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/7 "2002-06-06T04:01:49Z")
As far as bin Ladin not posting demands, well he’s been pissed off about the US’ s being on Saudi soil during the Gulf War for over 10 years now, plus there’s the whole Israel thing which I’m going to just nudge out there and then leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Ottto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e495f1/32.png) [@Ottto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottto)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/8 "2002-06-07T11:21:17Z")
Tactically, I would say the terrorists ‘won the battle’. It doesn’t matter if we root a few out in some sh!thole in Afghanistan or not; WE reacted to THEM. They, in a way, determined the future course of our nation. Strategically, the crystal ball is hazy. We seem to have the initiative now. It is up to our President and Congress to find the backbone to see this through, regardless of petty quibbles from certain vociferous media outlets and the like. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/9 "2002-06-08T01:01:16Z")
Petty quibbles like oh say, human rights, finding out whether or not the people we are killing actually had anything to do with the bombings. Stupid, petty stuff like that. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Ottto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e495f1/32.png) [@Ottto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottto)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/10 "2002-06-08T01:07:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > \*\*Petty quibbles like oh say, human rights, finding out whether or not the people we are killing actually had anything to do with the bombings. Stupid, petty stuff like that. > > Erek \*\* Sigh…some people just never learn. You really have no survival instict, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-terrorists-win/112595/11 "2002-06-08T21:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Could the 9/11 attacks just been “it”? I don’t think so. There is still the worse threat of bio/chem tactics (or terrorism, if you like).