# Did The Ancient Romans Have Restaurants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006 "2011-09-02T22:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/1 "2011-09-02T22:38:09Z")
I am aware that Roman cities had many establishments that sold prepared foods-and there were bakeries. There were also food vendors at stadiums, sports, public events. But did the Romans have fine dining establishments? Ancient Rome had plenty of good cooks-it would be strange if some of them did not set up in business to serve sit-down meals. Have the ruins of Roman eating establishments been found? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/2 "2011-09-02T22:42:49Z")
I doubt it. Restaurants as we think of them today are a middle-class phenomenon, and the Romans didn’t have much of a middle class. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/3 "2011-09-02T22:53:42Z")
I think eating out was generally associated with lower class members of urban society who did not have the means to prepare their own meals. Members of upper class would have prided themselves on having the means (slaves, big kitchens and dining rooms) to eat at home. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/4 "2011-09-02T22:57:29Z")
Remember when posters in GQ endeavored to provide well-supported factual answers to inquiries, rather than just popping off with the first plausible guess that came to their heads? With that much as prologue, I found in the very obscure [_Wikipedia: The free encyclopedia_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurant) this passage: > [@](#): > > In Ancient Rome, thermopolia (singular thermopolium) were small restaurant-bars which offered food and drinks to the customer. A typical thermopolium had L-shaped counters into which large storage vessels were sunk, which would contain either hot or cold food. They are linked to the absence of kitchens in many dwellings and the ease with which people could purchase prepared foods. Besides, eating out was also considered an important aspect of socialising. > > In Pompeii, 158 thermopolia with a service counter have been identified across the whole town area. They were concentrated along the main axes of the town and the public spaces where they were frequented by the locals.[2] That “[2]” by the way is a indicator for this footnote: Ellis, Steven J. R. (2004): “The Distribution of Bars at Pompeii: Archaeological, Spatial and Viewshed Analyses”, _Journal of Roman Archaeology,_ Vol. 17, pp. 371–384 (374f.) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/5 "2011-09-02T23:00:28Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > : > In Ancient Rome, thermopolia (singular thermopolium) were small restaurant-bars which offered food and drinks to the customer. A typical thermopolium had L-shaped counters into which large storage vessels were sunk, which would contain either hot or cold food. They are linked to the absence of kitchens in many dwellings and the ease with which people could purchase prepared foods. Besides, eating out was also considered an important aspect of socialising. > > In Pompeii, 158 thermopolia with a service counter have been identified across the whole town area. They were concentrated along the main axes of the town and the public spaces where they were frequented by the locals.[2] These were exactly what I was referring to above. They were DEFINITELY not the equivalent of “fine dining establishments”. As the article points out they were for people who didn’t have kitchens. This would have NOT been the elite. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/6 "2011-09-02T23:04:07Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > That “[2]” by the way is a indicator for this footnote: Ellis, Steven J. R. (2004): “The Distribution of Bars at Pompeii: Archaeological, Spatial and Viewshed Analyses”, _Journal of Roman Archaeology,_ Vol. 17, pp. 371–384 (374f.) That footnote reaffirms my faith in humanity. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/7 "2011-09-02T23:06:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That footnote reaffirms my faith in humanity. You’ll notice it doesn’t say “ANCIENT Pompeii”. That’s research grant money damn well spent 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/8 "2011-09-02T23:10:27Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > These were exactly what I was referring to above. They were DEFINITELY not the equivalent of “fine dining establishments”. As the article points out they were for people who didn’t have kitchens. This would have NOT been the elite. Exactly. The Wikipedia reference in **Kimmy\_Gibbler** ’s snarky response agrees with what you said. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/9 "2011-09-03T01:09:55Z")
What do mean by “fine dining?” There were nicer places which catered to the upper and limited middle classes. They just weren’t exactly what you’d think of as a restaurant in modern times. So what do _ **you** _ mean by “restaurant?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/10 "2011-09-03T01:44:21Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > These were exactly what I was referring to above. They were DEFINITELY not the equivalent of “fine dining establishments”. As the article points out they were for people who didn’t have kitchens. This would have NOT been the elite. Well, rest assured, you are still wrong. [Here](http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20041129/romanreststop.html) is another source that demonstrates that there were Roman restaurants for all strata of society. When somebody asks a question such as “Did the Romans have sit down restaurants?”, you should attempt to research the question and _then_ respond. It is an empirical question, after all, not a zen koan upon which to meditate. While there is always a place for inference when research avenues run dry, those are a last resort. The existence of these establishments in antiquity isn’t surprising, of course. You need only realize that they are more usually called inns. You’ll likely object and say something like “Well, the ELITE stayed at the villas of other ELITES, not inns!” Or “Well, the OP meant establishments for non-travelers” (of course, without ever bothering to show that non-travelers did not often patronize inns). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/11 "2011-09-03T02:13:23Z")
According to Davis’ _The Oxford Companion to Food,_ which I do not have at hand, no. In Olden Days inns and other establishments would post what they were serving at the door, beef stew here today, porridge over there. In a restaurant you can order what you like from a menu. I seem to recall this was invented in post-Revolutionary France. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/12 "2011-09-03T02:34:59Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > According to Davis’ _The Oxford Companion to Food,_ which I do not have at hand, no. In Olden Days inns and other establishments would post what they were serving at the door, beef stew here today, porridge over there. In a restaurant you can order what you like from a menu. > > I seem to recall this was invented in post-Revolutionary France. **Kimmy\_Gibbler** is correct. The Romans had quite a large number of eating establishments, for many classes. However, afaik this went away with the Fall, leading mostly to Inns, sausage sellers, and what-not. The upper classes had a tradition of hospitality, thus any noble could almost always get a invite to dinner. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/13 "2011-09-03T02:54:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That footnote reaffirms my faith in humanity. It reaffirms my faith in “Publish or Perish” -or- “What’s left to study?” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/14 "2011-09-03T04:56:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, afaik this went away with the Fall.. Everyone overlooks the Byzantines. If something Roman was good, it may have gone away in Europe but it’s a good bet it survived for the next thousand years in the Eastern Roman Empire. While Europe plunged into the Dark Ages and were probably eating slop, the Byzantines were doing pretty well and eating in tavernas. There is a pretty good description [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=hs3iEyVRHKsC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=byzantine+tavernas&source=bl&ots=q2k1zrxcC5&sig=uvbatKmyCuJid7vbZTmLGG-OPPE&hl=en&ei=8KphTrWgE8TE0AHext2GCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg) (google book search result). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/15 "2011-09-03T06:05:29Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Everyone overlooks the Byzantines. If something Roman was good, it may have gone away in Europe but it’s a good bet it survived for the next thousand years in the Eastern Roman Empire. While Europe plunged into the Dark Ages and were probably eating slop, the Byzantines were doing pretty well and eating in tavernas.t). True, good point, the Eastern Empire continued on for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/16 "2011-09-03T06:19:03Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Everyone overlooks the Byzantines. If something Roman was good, it may have gone away in Europe but it’s a good bet it survived for the next thousand years in the Eastern Roman Empire. And then the Russians picked up the torch… (Well, _you_ tell them they didn’t!) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/17 "2011-09-03T09:06:09Z")
I had the impression food was served socially at most public places. You didn’t need to go to a restaurant. A privileged Roman could hang out at the public baths and slave girls would bring food around. Or you could go to the forum and slaves probably served food there. Slaves were routinely taken from areas conquered by the Romans. I suspect they played a big part in day to day society. Bringing food & drink, preparing meals, and other household tasks. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/18 "2011-09-03T10:28:41Z")
there has been fast food in all civilizations. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/19 "2011-09-03T11:56:39Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, rest assured, you are still wrong. [Here](http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20041129/romanreststop.html) is another source that demonstrates that there were Roman restaurants for all strata of society. > > When somebody asks a question such as “Did the Romans have sit down restaurants?”, you should attempt to research the question and _then_ respond. It is an empirical question, after all, not a zen koan upon which to meditate. While there is always a place for inference when research avenues run dry, those are a last resort. > > The existence of these establishments in antiquity isn’t surprising, of course. You need only realize that they are more usually called inns. You’ll likely object and say something like “Well, the ELITE stayed at the villas of other ELITES, not inns!” Or “Well, the OP meant establishments for non-travelers” (of course, without ever bothering to show that non-travelers did not often patronize inns). Oh, thank you!😃 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006/20 "2011-09-03T12:56:54Z")
When I was in Rome (10 plus years ago), I ate at a place that claimed to be a eating place in Roman times. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ancient-romans-have-restaurants/595006.md?page=2)