# Did the ATF intentionally allow guns to fall into the hands of Mexican cartels? Fortune mag says no.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-atf-intentionally-allow-guns-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-cartels-fortune-mag-says-no/626505>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [June 27, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-atf-intentionally-allow-guns-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-cartels-fortune-mag-says-no/626505 "2012-06-27T21:33:39Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-atf-intentionally-allow-guns-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-cartels-fortune-mag-says-no/626505/101 "2012-07-01T22:57:15Z")

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> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> The AG may be the “cover for his underlings” type, or just wants to fix things in house rather than suffer the embarrassment of having Congress “fix” things for him.

Where have I heard that before? :rolleyes:

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**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\
**Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-atf-intentionally-allow-guns-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-cartels-fortune-mag-says-no/626505/102 "2012-07-02T03:10:15Z")

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> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#):
>
> Sure, it’s possible that Obama was involved in F&F, and by involved I don’t necessarily mean there was any wrongdoing on his part, but I can’t rule that out definitively, either. It’s possible that you are wrong about whether he was justified in claiming EP, and that he has a valid and justifiable reason for doing so. It’s possible that Obama was indeed not justified in claiming EP, but did so thinking that he was justified, and was simply wrong. What is not possible, is to know for sure that any wrongdoing was done by the Obama administration based purely on the fact that he claimed EP. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what you are saying?

My point is that the Obama WH was not officially linked to F&F UNTIL Obama issued EP to Holder, the justice dept, and the operation.

Obama must feel that he is justified in issuing the EP or he wouldn’t have issued it. There are several reasons Obama could have felt justified but that doesn’t mean “his” justification was in the nations best interest. Helping out friend Holder, silencing blackmailer Holder, hiding the fact that the WH requested the justice dept create a Wide Reciever-type program to eventually push for more gun control laws, … I don’t know. Holder and Obama aren’t talking. I’m not justifying anything. Obama chose to tie himself to F&F.

Federal field agents requested authorization to arrest obvious lawbreakers. Higher ups in BATFE and the justice dept. refused to authorize the arrests. Holder repeatedly stated that he wasn’t aware of F&F until it became obvious that he had been aware it. Who refused to authorise the arrests? Is this a matter of national security?

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