# Did the CIA create ISIS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706 "2015-11-16T16:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/41 "2015-11-20T15:42:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Politicians like _their own_ countries to be part of big blocs. You think the US, China and Russia like the idea of the EU? I think the US, at any rate, loves the idea of the EU (we’d probably like it if they went a step further to a federal political system to go with their economic union in fact)…and would love the idea of a united Arab superstate that acted like the EU. What I don’t think is that the CIA formed, funded or created ISIS, let alone that they did so with the idea of forming such a state in the ME. Thus far all I’ve seen as evidence for such a thing are assertions and a link to a loopy video (I only watched about a minute of it before the eye roll became hazardous). ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/42 "2015-11-20T15:48:46Z")
But haven’t we, really, gone past the idea of separate nations now ? In theory even if the practicalities have yet to catch up ? The Russians are busy building their Eurasian bloc and despite the Ukraine spat they still manage to cooperate on space missions with the US. Much easier to administer and market to a planet of large regions rather than hundreds of nations ? > [@](#): > > [US warns Britain](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu): If you leave EU you face barriers to trading with America Trade representative Michael Froman says UK would face same tariffs and barriers as China, Brazil or India in the event of Brexit > The United States is not keen on pursuing a separate free trade deal with Britain if it leaves the [European Union](http://www.theguardian.com/world/eu), the US trade representative, Michael Froman, said – the first public comments from a senior US official on the matter. > > Washington has just sealed a trade deal with 11 other Pacific nations and wants to wrap up negotiations with the EU on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) by the end of next year. So wouldn’t it be preferable to deal with a large bloc covering North Africa and the Middle East, and a Eurasian bloc including Russian and Iran ? And then you could start on large scale trade deals ? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/43 "2015-11-20T16:07:05Z")
…so by the year 2050 instead of Reaper drones bombing wedding parties, it might be [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) drones scooting Nike trainers from Algeria to Afghanistan. Type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/44 "2015-11-20T19:01:11Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But haven’t we, really, gone past the idea of separate nations now ? If you were to ask 1,000 people who are native to England what their nationality is, how many do you think would answer, “European?” ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/45 "2015-11-20T19:34:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you were to ask 1,000 people who are native to England what their nationality is, how many do you think would answer, “European?” But you’re begging the question. What would the answer be to “who rules you?” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/46 "2015-11-20T20:05:05Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But you’re begging the question. What would the answer be to “who rules you?” Why, the Coca-Cola Company, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/47 "2015-11-20T20:19:07Z")
Coke’s boss goes to Bilderberg. Usually coke is mixed with rum or vodka, but sometimes it’s mixed with NATO commanders and banking heads. Why ? Beats me. Maybe it’s to ensure that _Operation Diabetes_ keeps on track. But anyway, yeah, Arab Bloc in the future ? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/48 "2015-11-20T20:27:00Z")
[QUOTE=MrQwertyasd] But anyway, yeah, Arab Bloc in the future ? [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t hold my breath, but you are free to do as you like. There is just about zero likelihood of an Arab Bloc a la the EU anytime in the foreseeable future. And less chance that the CIA was trying to build one by supposedly creating and supporting ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/49 "2015-11-20T21:30:30Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But anyway, yeah, Arab Bloc in the future ? Have you ever been to an Arab country? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/50 "2015-11-20T22:49:04Z")
OK then maybe by 2051 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/51 "2015-11-20T22:57:36Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > OK then maybe by 2051 😃 Maybe in 2015 the CIA will indeed be responsible for creating and funding the ISIS of that time, yes. Could happen. Most likely a pan Arab Bloc a la the EU, however, is not feasible in that time frame (and remember, the EU is basically an economic and trade union, not an executive or federal one as you seemed to be implying…but even THAT is unlikely). But who knows? Stranger things have happened I suppose… Out of curiosity, which countries do you envision joining this Arab Bloc? Maybe if you started there it would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/52 "2015-11-21T03:18:12Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Maybe in 2015 the CIA will indeed be responsible for creating and funding the ISIS of that time, yes. Could happen. > > Most likely a pan Arab Bloc a la the EU, however, is not feasible in that time frame (and remember, the EU is basically an economic and trade union, not an executive or federal one as you seemed to be implying…but even THAT is unlikely). But who knows? Stranger things have happened I suppose… > > Out of curiosity, which countries do you envision joining this Arab Bloc? Maybe if you started there it would be helpful. Something like the Arab league ? Mind you, due for a temperature rise across the area, and maybe even less rain. Phwoar, the EU is[pretty executive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission#Executive_power) that’s why so many are always moaning about it - loss of sovereignty, unaccountable eurocrats, straight cucumber directives etc. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/53 "2015-11-22T02:31:31Z")
I was hearing a variation of this idea some months ago. I think it was something about Libyan weapons being moved into Syria, and “rebels” backed by the USA gassing civilians and framing Assad for it. It’s probably too neat, but I am certainly not ruling it out. It too well fits the old Anglo-Saxon global political theory of a “Great Game” in competition with the Russian sphere of influence. Back in the realm of the proven, Syria’s recent problems [substantially](http://www.upworthy.com/trying-to-follow-what-is-going-on-in-syria-and-why-this-comic-will-get-you-there-in-5-minutes) flow from a very bad drought from about 2006-2011. So Global Climate Change and overpopulation probably created ISIS. But maybe the USA helped. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/54 "2015-11-22T02:43:15Z")
Come to think of it, the conspiracy theory I’m remembering was probably pointed at FSA as much as or more than ISIS/Daesh. That said, before ISIS was ISIS, the USA seemed to be the ones who promoted the idea that al-Zarqawi was leading “Al Qaeda in Irag” instead of some other name. The idea that AQI/ISIS is a US creature is an attractive, if probably almost totally wrong, conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/55 "2015-11-26T02:20:25Z")
Wesley Clarke saying what everyone has been saying - Turkey supports ISIS [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Se_lg858wLU/maxresdefault.jpg "General Wes Clark Says TURKEY IS SUPPORTING ISIS!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se_lg858wLU) ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/56 "2015-11-26T15:42:14Z")
…that’s a NATO country, BTW. If Turkey supports ISIS, then it is implicated in the Paris attacks - another NATO country. If one NATO country attacks another, how do you figure how article 5 should work ? ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/57 "2015-11-26T15:58:47Z")
The CIA is famous for funding opposition groups (to regimes we don’t like). This has backfired MANY times-Google Cuban Revolution, Dominican Dictator Trujillo, Mossadegh (Iran). Basically, we send a lot of money to people we think are our allies-these people then turn out to be terrorists-and we know how that worksd out. HC is very reluctant to tell all about her role in Libya-I think, years from now, it will revelaed to have been another CIA screwup. We never seem to learn from these disasters. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706/58 "2015-11-26T16:06:53Z")
Cui Bono > **[NATO is harbouring the Islamic State](https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/europe-is-harbouring-the-islamic-state-s-backers-d24db3a24a40#.ocgkacuff)** > > Why France’s brave new war on ISIS is a sick joke, and an insult to the victims of the Paris attacks > [@](#): > > In 2009, Qatar had proposed to build a pipeline to send its gas northwest via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria to Turkey. But Assad “refused to sign the plan,” reports Orenstein. “Russia, which did not want to see its position in European gas markets undermined, put him under intense pressure not to.” > Russia’s Gazprom sells 80% of its gas to Europe. So in 2010, Russia put its weight behind “an alternative Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline that would pump Iranian gas from the same field out via Syrian ports such as Latakia and under the Mediterranean.” The project would allow Moscow “to control gas imports to Europe from Iran, the Caspian Sea region, and Central Asia.” > Then in July 2011, a $10 billion Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline deal was [announced](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903591104576467631289250392), and a preliminary agreement duly signed by Assad. > Later that year, the US, UK, France and Israel were ramping up covert assistance to rebel factions in Syria to elicit the “collapse” of Assad’s regime “from within.” > “The United States… supports the Qatari pipeline as a way to balance Iran and diversify Europe’s gas supplies away from Russia,” explained Orenstein in _Foreign Affairs_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-create-isis/737706.md?page=2)