# Did the CIA know about the WTC attack plans, or are they just impotent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2001, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239 "2001-09-17T19:46:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curious\_george](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@curious\_george](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curious_george)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/1 "2001-09-17T19:46:30Z")
So, let’s look at this terrorist attack that is so surprising and shocking: -it looks like there were at least 50 people involved in the elaborate 9/11 attacks, which must have taken months or years to plan. -the most notorious, well known terrorist in the world, bin Laden, publicly proclaimed three weeks ago that attacks on the US were imminent. -some or all of the terrorist pilots were trained at flight schools in the USA. One of them told the school he “wanted to skip the parts about taking off and landing, and only wanted to learn how to fly a plane in the air”. -the attacks occured at two of the most prominent buildings in America: the pentagon, and the WTC. The WTC was aleady a known terrorist target. It was bombed in 1993, killing 8 people and injuring 1,000. However, the CIA, with a 30 billion per year budget, and the most sophisticated spying network in the world, was not able to see the 9/11 attack coming and stop it? I only see two possible conclusions about the CIA: 1. They are bumbling idiots. Worthless, at least when it comes to preventing terrorism. -OR- 2. They knew about the attack plans before they happened, but didn’t stop it. Why would the CIA do something this dasterdly? For financial and political reasons. Since the attack, congress has already approved a $40 billion dollar increase in spending for the CIA and military to help fight terrorism. The Bushes are the CIA’s best friends. George Sr. is a former CIA director. Bush jr. will likely get support from America in the fight against terrorism. It will help his presidency, which was very questionable before. I think the chances are about equal of 1) or 2) being the case with the CIA, and I am leaning towards 2. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/2 "2001-09-17T20:09:40Z")
What I think would better be delivered in The Pit. To the extent that a GD response is required: You post is an amalgam of unsupported allegations and poorly supported conclusions. I could point out that the trend has been to eviscerate the CIA’s human spies in favor of electronic intercepts over the past ten years, because of a general sense that since the fall of communism in the former Soviet Union, we don’t need spies, and nice countries don’t engage in spying anyway. These sentiments, I hardly need add, are hardly likely to have come from within the Agency. However, I won’t go down that road. I’ll merely point out that: Flight schools have never before been seen as security risks or hotbeds of international terror; Even if true, a student pilot saying he only wanted to learn to fly in the air is hardly cause for the CIA, which is forbidden from domestic operation in any case, from getting involved; The previous attack on the World Trade Center had very little, operationally, to do with this one; The CIA’s mission is foreign, not domestic, counterterrorism. Domestic counterterrorism falls into the general ambit of the FBI; obviously, the two agencies cooperate. If you’d like to wipe the drool off your chin and post a more cogent argument, I’ll be right here. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/3 "2001-09-17T20:17:03Z")
So these are the _only_ options you can think of? Though, bloodthirsty savages, give the terrorists credit for being cunning and well organized. Is it any wonder that someone who would gladly fly a plane into a building is also capable of keeping a secret? To some extent it’s clear there was an intelligence failure, but more accurately **blame should be laid, first and foremost, at the feet of terrorists.** Your ‘choice two’ is an alarmist conspiracy theory, and I would appreciate some plausible evidence being presented before such malicious accusations are put forth. ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/4 "2001-09-17T20:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > -the most notorious, well known terrorist in the world, bin Laden, publicly proclaimed three weeks ago that attacks on the US were imminent. Cite, please? > [@](#): > > ? I only see two possible conclusions about the CIA: > > 1. They are bumbling idiots. Worthless, at least when it comes to preventing terrorism. -OR- > 2. They knew about the attack plans before they happened, but didn’t stop it. Why would the CIA do something this dasterdly? For financial and political reasons. How about: 1. The CIA can’t spy on everyone at once. They’re not impotent, but they’re not omnipotent either. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/5 "2001-09-18T04:16:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RoboDude \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > -the most notorious, well known terrorist in the world, bin Laden, publicly proclaimed three weeks ago that attacks on the US were imminent. > > Cite, please?\*\* Just for the heck of it… [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/09/07/japan.warning/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/09/07/japan.warning/index.html) > [@](#): > > U.S. issues terror attack warning > September 7, 2001 Posted: 4:16 PM EDT (2016 GMT) > > TOKYO, Japan (CNN) – The U.S. Embassy in Tokyo on Friday warned Americans living in Japan and South Korea of possible terrorist attacks. > > “We have received unconfirmed information that terrorist actions may be taken against U.S. military facilities or against establishments frequented by U.S. military personnel,” according to an embassy statement. > > Patrick Linehan, a spokesman for the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo, said orders to issue the warnings came from the U.S. State Department and include all U.S. military facilities and establishments frequented by U.S. military personnel all over Japan, including Okinawa – home to about 26,000 U.S. troops > > A senior Pentagon official said he was not aware of why the State Department issued the public warning **but said it might be related to continuing intelligence indicating that operatives of Saudi militant Osama bin Laden are looking for a “public venue” to attack Americans.** ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/6 "2001-09-18T04:27:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Did the CIA know about the WTC attack plans, or are they just impotent? Fallacy of the Excluded Middle ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/7 "2001-09-18T04:34:06Z")
\ Mr. George, did you ever stop and think about how the CIA could gather information on these Islamic terrorist groups? These are very tight-knit groups of people who often grew up together, who have a long history in the Islamic movement. They don’t recruit strangers. How exactly do you think they would react if a white guy who just graduated from Yale wandering into one of their meetings and said he was interested in becoming an Islamic suicide bomber? Just how fawking easy do you think these terrorist groups would be to infiltrate? Look, if you go to Klan meetings, militia meetings, christian identity meetings, you can make a pretty safe bet that half the people there are FBI plants. Why is that? Because there are plenty of people from the same social groups that make up these homegrown hate groups that also might end up joining the FBI. Lots of law enforcement agents grew up in white trash surroundings. They understand these people, they understand how they think, they can blend in. The only way the Islamic terrorist groups can be infiltrated is if Arab governments themselves get serious about it. They are the ones who have the people who are loyal to the government but yet have the background to blend in at an Islamic Jihad meeting. And your guess that the CIA probably knew about the attack but let it occur because they wanted the money and power that would come from a crackdown on terrorism? Are you sure it wasn’t because of all the Jews controlling the government? I imagine all those rich Jews running the Zionist Occupation Government must drive you crazy. Admit it, you can’t stand the Jews, can you? You hate Bush because he’s controlled by the Jews, right? ---
**Author:** ![curious\_george](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@curious\_george](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curious_george)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/8 "2001-09-20T21:50:36Z")
Bricker, OK, maybe I should say it’s an FBI and CIA combined failure. Duck Duck Goose, thanks for the cite. I have seen the bin Laden warning on tv and the newspaper, but can’t find other cites on the web now. Lemur, your anti-Jew statements are false, appaling, and uncalled for. BBQ PIT: As for going to the BBQ pit, that is the lowest form of debate. The pit has mostly worthless, juvenile, filthy, vulgar name calling. If you have something to say about my thread, say it here. INTELLIGENCE WARNINGS: There is a thread in MPSIMS started by other people that talks about reports that the CIA was warned about the attacks: [“We were warned!”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=88268) Are you going to go post similar comments on their thread? Are you going to take those posters to the pit and flame them, too? Regarding the alleged warning, the LA Times wrote an article supporting that today. Of course, the CIA denies it: [CIA: Reports Of Attack Warnings ‘Nonsense’](http://www.channel3000.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-96712320010920-070954.html) Also, there is this: [http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170072.html](http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170072.html) Echelon Gave Authorities Warning Of Attacks By Ned Stafford, Newsbytes FRANKFURT, GERMANY, 13 Sep 2001, 1:16 PM CST U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies received warning signals at least three months ago that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture, according to a story in Germany’s daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ)… p.s. Cecil’s column talked about Echelon only two months ago, 7/20/01: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010720.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010720.html) ---
**Author:** ![curious\_george](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@curious\_george](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curious_george)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/9 "2001-09-20T21:53:36Z")
Synopsis of one report: CIA: Reports Of Attack Warnings ‘Nonsense’ Posted: 8:02 a.m. EDT September 20, 2001 WASHINGTON – The CIA is calling a Los Angeles Times report today “utter nonsense.” The report this morning said that Israel warned the FBI and CIA in August that the U.S. could be in for a “major assault.” The agency reportedly said it had picked up indications that a “large-scale target” had been picked, and that Americans would be “very vulnerable.” The report claimed that government officials were advised that there might be a “major assault” by 200 Muslims. The article quoted an unnamed law enforcement official, and says that Israel’s intelligence agency warned the FBI and CIA about an attack last month… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/10 "2001-09-21T01:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > As for going to the BBQ pit, that is the lowest form of debate. The pit has mostly worthless, juvenile, filthy, vulgar name calling. If you have something to say about > my thread, say it here. If you hate the Pit so much, why do you keep starting Pit threads? In GD, no less. > [@](#): > > There is a thread in MPSIMS started by other people that talks about reports that the CIA was warned about the attacks: “We were warned!” Are you going to go post similar comments on their thread? Are you going to take those posters to the pit and flame them, too? Those threads don’t contain fallacies galore, big guy. There’s the difference. Nor does the OP react with irrational hostility when people respond with less-than-supportive posts. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/11 "2001-09-21T06:25:41Z")
Curious George, since you don’t visit the pit, you probably don’t know that you’ve just won the coveted “Golden Foreskin” award. If you can’t stop your anti-American rantings for at least a week or so after this tragedy, you are soon going to find that everyone you know hates and despises you, except at your Maoist International Movement meetings. ---
**Author:** ![JubilationTCornpone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@JubilationTCornpone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JubilationTCornpone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/12 "2001-09-22T04:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Did the CIA know about the WTC attack plans, or are they just impotent? > > Fallacy of the Excluded Middle \*\* Or, in other words, ignorance of the attack plans does NOT mean that the CIA is simply impoootent. Just thought I’d spell it out, in case some people didn’t get the point. ---
**Author:** ![curiousgeorgeordeadcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@curiousgeorgeordeadcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curiousgeorgeordeadcat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-cia-know-about-the-wtc-attack-plans-or-are-they-just-impotent/82239/13 "2001-09-28T14:49:45Z")
I would have disagreed with curious george, but after reading this, I cannot help but be suspicious: [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs\_010501.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html)