# Did the dwarves ever reoccupy Moria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512 "2013-09-23T14:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/21 "2013-09-23T20:34:58Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > he went out of his way to tangle with someone whom he presumably recognized as a Maia. Gandalf was a Maia diminished and constrained. That was the deal when he became a wizard. He was pretty lucky to overcome the balrog as Gandalf the Grey, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/22 "2013-09-23T21:20:30Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Gandalf was a Maia diminished and constrained. That was the deal when he became a wizard. He was pretty lucky to overcome the balrog as Gandalf the Grey, IMHO. To quote Obi Wan, in my experience there is no such thing as luck. Gandalf expected the balrog to step on the bridge and Gandalf expected to break the bridge sending both himself and the balrog to the bottom, perhaps thinking he could break it as he did leaving himself on one end, as happened. I think you are right. No one ever took on a balrog without dying in the attempt. That the balrog fell in water, that Gandalf was the bearer of the Ring of Fire, had a good sword, etc. were all fortuitous, but the self-sacrifice to stop his counterpart was the key. That and his perseverance. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/23 "2013-09-23T22:13:44Z")
The eldar Elf lords are supposed to be pretty potent. Glorfindel killed a Balrog in single combat in the first age, as did Ecthelion. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/24 "2013-09-23T22:21:11Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If he had showed up outside Moria, would he have been bossed around by Sauron? . . . Bossed around, probably not, but they might well have made some sort of alliance. Gandalf speaks of something similar: if the dragon, Smaug, had not been killed, it would have been wreaking vast havoc in the north during the War of the Rings, keeping much-needed forces from assisting the defense of Lorien. Likewise, if Sauron could have persuaded the Balrog to go out the western doors and make an approach to Rivendell, the Northern Rangers might not have gone south to link up with Aragorn. Strategery! (Anybody else fond of the “Risk” Middle Earth variant?) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/25 "2013-09-23T22:26:30Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > The eldar Elf lords are supposed to be pretty potent. Glorfindel killed a Balrog in single combat in the first age, as did Ecthelion. And both paid with their lives, as did Gandalf. Nice that both Glorfindel and Gandalf got resurrected. I assume Ecthelion did eventually, too. Though he could still be cooling his heels in Mandos. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/26 "2013-09-23T23:43:39Z")
The Balrog has been in hiding and will stay there until Morgoth returns. The dwarves and orcs are little more than mites disturbing his sleep. I remember an annex in LOTR mentioning that a new mithril lode in Moria was discovered after the war of the ring. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/27 "2013-09-24T00:06:05Z")
I thought they stayed with Snow White. StG ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/28 "2013-09-24T03:25:36Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I thought they stayed with Snow White. > > StG There was a very embarrassing falling out. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/29 "2013-09-25T18:05:17Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > The cable guy was supposed to show between 10 - 2. He’s still waiting. Yeah, he was subscribing to Middle Earth-link. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/30 "2013-09-25T18:23:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There was a very embarrassing falling out. They need to adjust their stroke distance then. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/31 "2013-09-25T19:00:24Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > The eldar Elf lords … No, the Eldar are an [entirely different franchise.](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-75IRRajPwV4/UbEoB3YAKRI/AAAAAAAACZM/-otwdaSVKHM/s1600/guardians.jpg) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/32 "2013-09-25T19:38:10Z")
And just where do you think Warhammer shamelessly stole the word from? “Eldar” is what the Elves call themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/33 "2013-09-25T22:14:48Z")
Huh, I thought I was just making fun of a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/34 "2013-09-25T23:53:43Z")
That’s the funny thing-- It probably was a typo, and yet manages to be exactly right anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/35 "2013-09-26T01:24:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Would he really have been intimidated by the prospect of facing Galadriel and her long-haired [stoner](http://www.council-of-elrond.com/castdb/celeborn/celeborn2.jpg) husband? Celeborn is frequently referred to as “the wisest of the Galadrim”. Based on his character in both the book and the movies, I have always thought that this did not speak well of the intelligence of the Galadrim. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/36 "2013-09-26T01:37:32Z")
Nah, Galadriel and Celeborn just have an agreement, one of those that married couples often have. He doesn’t argue with anything she says, and in return, she goes along with the pretense that he’s the wise one. The truth of the matter would be unkind to his ego. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/37 "2013-09-26T01:39:59Z")
Well, Olorin is referred to as the wisest of the Maia. Pretty hard to sell that when he didn’t spot Saruman’s treachery coming, or that Bilbo’s ring was the One Ring. Or leaving Frodo guarded by a fellow with only a broken sword who wasn’t even in the same county. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/38 "2013-09-26T02:22:33Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Celeborn is frequently referred to as “the wisest of the Galadrim”. Based on his character in both the book and the movies, I have always thought that this did not speak well of the intelligence of the Galadrim. I keep wondering how things would have turned out if Tolkien had decided to keep the Telerin name and refer to him as Teleporno. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/39 "2013-09-26T12:37:17Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I keep wondering how things would have turned out if Tolkien had decided to keep the Telerin name and refer to him as Teleporno. I briefly considered that name for SDMB when I first registered. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512/40 "2013-09-26T12:49:18Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > … No one ever took on a balrog without dying in the attempt. That the balrog fell in water, that Gandalf was the bearer of the Ring of Fire, had a good sword, etc. were all fortuitous, but the self-sacrifice to stop his counterpart was the key. That and his perseverance. I believe that Arien, at least, drove off several Balrogs from the Sun. She may not have slain any of them, but she certainly survived. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-dwarves-ever-reoccupy-moria/669512.md?page=3)