# Did the Enterprise ever leave the galaxy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 26, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452 "2009-02-26T01:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/21 "2009-02-26T12:41:32Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > The absolutely **did** leave The Milky Way in _By Any Other Name_. There was a very neat shot of the Enterprise hurtling through empty (i.e. starless) intergalactic space with the Andromeda Galaxy in the distance. I haven’t seen the remastered version, but just the original was pretty good. The Kelvin technology would have gotten them there in 300 years, amazingly fast even for Star Trek times. Yes, that shot was good - it gave a very good impression of the _Enterprise_ r-e-e-e-ally belting along. Still, the Quantum II hyperdrive (Niven, from “At the Core” and later _Ringworld_) would have got them there in about five years by my literal back-of-the-envelope calculations - it allowed a speed of one light year per minute and a quarter, which is about 400 kly yr[sup]-1[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/22 "2009-02-26T12:49:43Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > There was an episode of Voyager where the Delta Flyer achieved Warp 10 (infinite speed), so they were technically at all points in the universe simultaneously, including outside the galaxy. This has the unfortunate side effect of mutating you into a lizard, for some stupid reason. Do Paris and Janeway still have lizard offspring running around somewhere in the gamma quadrant, btw? That must be kinda hard to come to terms with… Janeway: “I always wanted kids, and now they’re lizards and never call.” Boy, I’d want to listen in on those therapy sessions… ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/23 "2009-02-26T14:33:08Z")
I’ve allus wanted to know where _The Borg_ came from, their home planet. And why do they want to assimilate all beings. Bastards ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/24 "2009-02-26T17:46:29Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > In TOS they always mentioned there being a ‘galactic barrier’ at the edge of the galaxy. In fact they traveled to it in the pilot episode, but never actually got thru it. One of the novels retconned this into a barrier around part of the galaxy, put there by the Q continuum to keep out something REALLY nasty. > [@tim314](#): > > There was an episode of Voyager where the Delta Flyer achieved Warp 10 (infinite speed), so they were technically at all points in the universe simultaneously, including outside the galaxy. This has the unfortunate side effect of mutating you into a lizard, for some stupid reason. Another one of the novels had someone hit Warp 10 and disappear, and it was deemed that they were everywhere and nowhere. This was not told from the shipboard perspective, though, so it was not revealed whether the crew turned into lizards. No, Star Trek is not all I read. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/25 "2009-02-26T18:01:24Z")
I will never forgive what TNG did to the warp speed values. In TOS although never actually stated in the series but used in the book The Making of Star Trek by Gene R. Warp speed was the cube of the warp factor in times the speed of light. So Warp 1 is 1x1x1=1, W2 is 2x2x2=8c all the way up. TOS Enterprise could reach W9 or 729c the refurbished Enterprise from TMP W12 or 1728c. When TNG came along Gene R decided Warp 9 sounded fast enough so no ship could reach warp 10 which was infinite speed. So then they were stuck with ship speeds that looked ridiculous. Enterprise-D W9.96545 Defiant W9.97687 Voyager W9.98767 ENT-E W9.98898 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/26 "2009-02-26T18:03:37Z")
It’s altogether unclear to me what’s happening the the Enterprise in _The Tholian Web_. Two kinds of space were overlapping and they were alternating between them, or something. The other Federation ship in that episode in fact _did_ leave this uinverse and fell into the Mirror Universe, as depicted in a much later _Star Trek: Enterprise_ episode. ---
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/27 "2009-02-26T18:04:56Z")
A starchart made from the Milky Way would be millions of years out of date for a ship that suddenly finds itself in another galaxy. Of course, since it’s Star Trek, there could very well be some sort of subspace telescope to be revealed a convenient point in the plot. Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager? I saw that episode once but immediately dumped it from memory in some sort of desperate attempt by my brain to keep itself from thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/28 "2009-02-26T20:33:32Z")
> [@luvrbcs](#): > > Here’s a link to a Warp Speed chart I found that caused me to ask the original question. > > [Engineering Department- Warp Speed Defined](http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/warp-chart.html) Wait - what? Using the numbers in that link that means that a ship flying at warp 9.9 can travel 8.36 light years a day. Wow, that’s really something. I mean, that’s twice as far as from Earth to Alpha Centari, in one day. Come on! If that’s “top speed” then it would take over three years to fly all the way across the Federation (which is 10,000 LY across), so if that’s the case how did the TNG Enterprise get from the galactic rim back to Earth in one season? Or indeed get from anywhere outside the Federation and to Earth in one season? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/29 "2009-02-26T20:42:20Z")
Someone once said the Enterprise flys at the maximum speed the plot demands. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/30 "2009-02-26T21:04:23Z")
> [@Prox](#): > > …Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager? I saw that episode once but immediately dumped it from memory in some sort of desperate attempt by my brain to keep itself from thinking about it. There was some handwaving explanation that going that fast changed their genetic structure somehow (easily reversed by the EMH in the last three minutes of the episode, of course). :smack::smack::smack: Jeez, that really was a gawdawful episode. One of the worst of a very uneven ST series. I can only imagine how awkward things would be for Janeway and Paris if they ever found themselves on the same turbolift alone together. “So… it sure was fun fucking when we were salamanders, wasn’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/31 "2009-02-26T22:15:16Z")
Human salamanders are sexy. [![](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:Main?file=Transwarp+humans.jpg) ](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:Main?file=Transwarp+humans.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/32 "2009-02-26T23:44:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There was some handwaving explanation that going that fast changed their genetic structure somehow (easily reversed by the EMH in the last three minutes of the episode, of course). :smack::smack::smack: IIRC, they supposedly picked up alien DNA as they passed through the universe at infinite speed. This somehow made them start to “evolve”. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/33 "2009-02-27T01:19:54Z")
> [@luvrbcs](#): > > Here’s a link to a Warp Speed chart I found that caused me to ask the original question. > > [Engineering Department- Warp Speed Defined](http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/warp-chart.html) I note that the chart for the original series is the cube of the warp factor until you get to warp 21, and then it’s arbitrarily infinity. In the later series, it seemed to be slightly over 10 ^ 2log(warp) up to warp 9, after which it seems to follow some other formula (or is just arbitrarily decided) and then arbitrarily hits infinity at warp 10. Warp 1 isn’t even exactly light speed but roughtly 1.024 times light speed. Now I’m no mathematician yet I’m sure I could still come up with a single formula where warp 1 is light speed and warp 10 is infinity. But I guess I may be expecting too much from a series where nearly every alien life form speaks English as its native language. (I’m a fan of Star Trek by the way. Just certain things could have been thought out a lot more.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/34 "2009-02-27T01:30:17Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > Now I’m no mathematician yet I’m sure I could still come up with a single formula where warp 1 is light speed and warp 10 is infinity. Warp speed (expressed in multiples of _c_) = 9 / (10 - warp factor) Warp 1 = 1_c_ Warp 2 = 1.125_c_ Warp 3 = 1.28_c_ Warp 4 = 1.67_c_ Warp 5 = 1.8_c_ Warp 6 = 2.25_c_ Warp 7 = 3_c_ Warp 8 = 4.5_c_ Warp 9 = 9_c_ Warp 10 = infinite It starts a bit slow, I admit. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/35 "2009-02-27T05:04:40Z")
I have one that works a bit better. It could go up a bit faster, but that would probably only require putting in some constants. I’m tired of working on it for right now. 1 / cos ((pi - (pi \* (1 - (log w) ^ (1/w)))) / 2) Logarithm is base 10 and cos is radians. ```auto gnuplot> print f(1.0) 1.0 gnuplot> print f(2.0) 1.5359926748733 gnuplot> print f(3.0) 2.97035214852379 gnuplot> print f(4.0) 5.37505435584105 gnuplot> print f(5.0) 9.22790826127886 gnuplot> print f(6.0) 15.5593035087647 gnuplot> print f(7.0) 26.8039320897779 gnuplot> print f(8.0) 50.2860446565464 gnuplot> print f(9.0) 122.648968630284 gnuplot> print f(9.9) 1441.10915270559 gnuplot> print f(10.0) 1.63312393531954e+16 ``` Okay, 10 is really infinity, but there seems to be a rounding error. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/36 "2009-02-27T05:11:17Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > …Okay, 10 is really infinity, but there seems to be a rounding error. That’s just what God said! ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/37 "2009-02-27T05:21:50Z")
> [@Prox](#): > > Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager? As I recall, the “explanation” only made it worse. Something to do with Warp 10 super-accelerating human evolution – that is, evolving them into the lizard creatures that we’re all apparently going to evolve into in a few hundred million years or so. Which is stupid not only because it makes no sense but because it suggests that evolution has some pre-determined endpoint, as opposed to being governed by environmental factors and natural selection and such. That has to be one of the worst episodes of Star Trek ever made. ---
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/38 "2009-02-27T05:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] As I recall, the “explanation” only made it worse. Something to do with Warp 10 super-accelerating human evolution – that is, evolving them into the lizard creatures that we’re all apparently going to evolve into in a few hundred million years or so. Which is stupid not only because it makes no sense but because it suggests that evolution has some pre-determined endpoint, as opposed to being governed by environmental factors and natural selection and such. [/quote] Ah, it’s all coming back. That’s worse than _Genesis_ in TNG. Star Trek shouldn’t do biology. Of physics, even. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/39 "2009-02-27T09:54:17Z")
I don’t know, I think I am coming down with an acute case of **Barclay’s Protomorphosis Syndrome**. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452/40 "2009-02-27T17:36:39Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I’ve allus wanted to know where _The Borg_ came from, their home planet. > > And why do they want to assimilate all beings. > > Bastards Well, I can’t remember what planet, but the “why”, according to one of the Trek novels that Shatner wrote, is that the V’Ger probe (from the first movie) ended up there. Spock was about to be assimilated by the Borg, and then they stopped, saying it was already done and didn’t need to be repeated. Some kind of leftover brain imprint from his mind-meld with V’Ger. Which brings up another question: I know that the books written for the trek continuum are considered cannon (for the most part) - does that include the fiction books that the actors have written? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-enterprise-ever-leave-the-galaxy/487452.md?page=3)