# Did the hiker amputee have no choice? Is there something odd about this story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051 "2003-05-09T04:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/41 "2003-05-09T15:52:35Z")
**RealityChuck** , what really happened is that he cut off his arm with a dull knife and then placed it under the rock. He was just another attention-seeker šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/42 "2003-05-09T15:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by D\_Odds \* > \*\*A patientā€™s medical history is private. And a respectful doctor should honor a patientā€™s wishes if the patient if the patient asks the doctor not to speak to the press about him. > > Not everyone is a camera-hungry media whore. He may have granted the one interview simply to get the vultures to stop circling. And if his goal is to instead profit off of his tale with a book and/or TV movie-of-the-week, that is entirely his own perogative. There is no rule that he has to tell his story for free. \*\* But why would he ask the doctors not to speak to the press? Thatā€™s what weā€™re speculating about here. Is it because he has something to hide or (more possible) because he wants to control the flow of information to suit his own purposes? ---
**Author:** ![malaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@malaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malaka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/43 "2003-05-09T15:56:40Z")
Iā€™m with you, **RealityChuck**. I canā€™t understand why everyone is so wary of this story. I love this logic: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Heā€™s got to have some amazing dexterity there, just to tie the knot, and heā€™d also need some sort of stick to twist it with (since heā€™s definitely not going to be able to pull the knot tight enough to begin with: Thatā€™s hard enough with three hands on the job, much less one).** ā€¦and thenā€¦ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Plus, whatever stick he used for the tourniquette (see above) could also have been used as a lever.** What stick?!?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![roadrunner70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@roadrunner70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roadrunner70)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/44 "2003-05-09T16:03:51Z")
**lieu** , thatā€™s the most igneous thing Iā€™ve ever heard you say. Guess I shouldnā€™t take your usual wit for granite. Iā€™ve heard of IV drug users tying off rubber hoses tourniquet-like with one hand and their teeth. Heard of, I sayā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/45 "2003-05-09T16:11:49Z")
I said he must have had a stick, because thereā€™s just no way he could have made a functional tourniquette without one. And I know that itā€™s quite possible to tie some knots one-handed, in some situations: Every Boy Scout knows how to tie a bowline around his own waist one-handed. But have you ever tried tying a loop around your arm one-handed? Because thatā€™s _not_ one that everyone practices and shows off. And maybe the figure of 800 lbs for the rock is too low, considering that the guys who retrieved the arm had such a hard time with it. Iā€™m just saying that, if it were just 800 lbs, he should have been able to shift it off. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/46 "2003-05-09T16:24:07Z")
_But why would he ask the doctors not to speak to the press?_ With all due respect, what possible business is it of yours? Are you not capable of supposing any but nefarious motives? Itā€™s his right to request the information be kept private, _and he doesnā€™t have to give a reason_. _Iā€™m just saying that, if it were just 800 lbs, he should have been able to shift it off._ Youā€™re kidding, right? ā€œJustā€ 800 lbs.? Shift it off from what was no doubt an awkward position? Time for a reality check. ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/47 "2003-05-09T16:26:10Z")
I canā€™t believe some of the garbage Iā€™m reading here. All the naysayers are right. He didnā€™t cut off his arm at all and he couldā€™ve easily moved the boulder if he had chosen to do so. Instead, it was chewed off by wolves while he was busy smuggling cocaine fom Mexico. It is actually fairly easy to tie a loop around your arm. Put one end of a piece of string or whatnot in your teeth and wrap it around your arm using one free hand. You can then tie a loose knot, still using your teeth and free hand before tightening it down to a tourniquet. Try it yourself. No practice is necessary to get this done when it needs doing. It doesnā€™t require superhuman dexterity. Also, maybe this guy is withholding some of the story because it was a horrible f\*\*\*ing experience? Maybe he doesnā€™t want to talk about how he screamed and passed out or the panic he went through when he realized he couldnā€™t free his arm. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/48 "2003-05-09T16:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*And maybe the figure of 800 lbs for the rock is too low, considering that the guys who retrieved the arm had such a hard time with it. Iā€™m just saying that, if it were just 800 lbs, he should have been able to shift it off. \*\* Shift it off??? ā€œJustā€ 800 lbs??? Hey, Superman, are you joshing? A huge boulder (not a ā€œrockā€) wedged atop your strong arm and youā€™re supposed to just ā€œshiftā€ it out of the way? Gimme a break! Maybe you, Oliver Stone and his team of Mafia/Cuban/French assassins could have pulled that off, but 99.99999% of the rest of us couldnā€™t if our lives depended on it. Weā€™re not talking laboratory conditions. Why this need to read sinister/strange motives into this manā€™s terrible predicament? ---
**Author:** ![pipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c2a13f/32.png) [@pipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pipper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/49 "2003-05-09T16:55:12Z")
**Chronos** , are you getting ready to compete in a strongman competition or something? Do you have any idea how much 800 pounds really is? Iā€™d be surprised if you could even move an 800 pound rock sitting by itself on a flat surface, let alone an 800 pound one that seems to have shifted and probably wedged itself between other rocks and/or the canyon wall. I really canā€™t believe so many people find the story to be fishy. This may be due to the fact that not many folks have climbing/canyoneering experience and donā€™t realize how many variables could be involved and how easily something like this could happen if youā€™re in the wrong place at the wrong time like this guy. Hereā€™s the NPS blurb on what happened. [Link](http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/morningreportold.cfm?date=05%2F05%2F2003) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/50 "2003-05-09T17:09:36Z")
I watched Aron Ralstonā€™s news conference yesterday and found him very credible. He went into great detail describing the position of the rock and all his attempts to movie it. And why they were futile. He told in very calm tones how he went through many different scenerios and carefully weighed what course of action might be best. He also told about how at first, panicked and raging, he continually slammed his body against the rock trying to movie it. He soon realized this would be counterproductive to his survival and focused his energies on how to get out of the situation. His words seem to be consistent with the information presented about the man ā€“ that he loves to climb and is very rational and methodical. Iā€™m impressed by his courage to do whatever necessary to save his own life, and so heroically sharing his tale with the world. I hope he does make money from his story. Heā€™s a singular individual. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/51 "2003-05-09T17:15:14Z")
I thought thereā€™s something odd about the story, because I Iā€™m trying to understand the mechanics of it. How can the following happen? 1. An 800 lb. boulder falls on just your forearm, and gets it, but nothing else so jammed in a second that you canā€™t move it. Iā€™m trying to understand it so it doesnā€™t happen to me. 2. How you can get _just half your forearm_ in a spot where you canā€™t get it out by pulling with all your might. Your forearm, unlike your foot, tapers to a point for the most part, and where it doesnā€™t, itā€™s composed of many small, malleable bones. He had enough strength and leverage to break his bones, Iā€™d like to understand how he could do that and not the other thing. a. If the boulder was firmly _wedged_ he might have worried out his hand by wiggling back and forth - the boulder wasnā€™t moveable, but his arm is within the envelope of skin and tissue. At the very least he may have extracted his hand sans skin, with enough friction. (anything will break if you wiggle it for hours) b. If the boulder was _resting_ on his arm, he could have done the above after wedging something into the space next to his arm to take up the slack when his arm moved. Iā€™m not saying heā€™s making this up by any means, the situation just seems so bizarre. He was hiking alone, without telling anyone exactly where he was going, whoā€™s to say that he was thinking clearly when he cut off his arm? These questions are all generated from the need to feel that you can control your fate, and ā€œhow can I avoid thisā€? ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/52 "2003-05-09T17:50:32Z")
I think itā€™s funny that now people are suspicious when you _donā€™t_ tell every detail of a traumatic experience to the media, and want your Doctors not to talk about your personal medical treatment. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/53 "2003-05-09T17:55:00Z")
Oh, for heavenā€™s sake - he wasnā€™t getting treatment for herpes! He was getting treatment for a severed arm! Why the secrecy? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/54 "2003-05-09T18:03:18Z")
I think youā€™re thinking too hard about all this, but here goes: \*\* 1. An 800 lb. boulder falls on just your forearm, and gets it, but nothing else so jammed in a second that you canā€™t move it.\*\* Given that the boulder moved, it has to stop somewhere. Could be your head, your foot, or 99% of the time it misses you altogether. Each situation is unique. You canā€™t predict all the possibilities. That said, I would venture that his arm was reached out to get a grip along a ā€œwall,ā€ and this time the boulder just happened to hit the spot occupied by his forearm. **2. How you can get _just half your forearm_ in a spot where you canā€™t get it out by pulling with all your might. Your forearm, unlike your foot, tapers to a point for the most part, and where it doesnā€™t, itā€™s composed of many small, malleable bones. He had enough strength and leverage to break his bones, Iā€™d like to understand how he could do that and not the other thing.** Well, first of all thereā€™s the wrist. Put a firmly anchored handcuff around one of yours and see if you can pull your hand off. Then thereā€™s the fact that the forward (hand side) portion of the forearm was pinned. That means under a fair amount of pressure. Put a tapered, polished, greased steel rod between two boulders with the weight of one of them upon it, and see if you can pull it out by hand. \*\*a. If the boulder was firmly _wedged_ he might have worried out his hand by wiggling back and forth - the boulder wasnā€™t moveable, but his arm is within the envelope of skin and tissue. At the very least he may have extracted his hand sans skin, with enough friction. (anything will break if you wiggle it for hours) \*\* His arm was mashed. Weā€™re not talking about just trapped, weā€™re talking about firmly squished. Nothingā€™s going to wiggle. **b. If the boulder was _resting_ on his arm, he could have done the above after wedging something into the space next to his arm to take up the slack when his arm moved.** Arm didnā€™t move. Do you understand what kind of pressure is exerted by a boulder of that size? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/55 "2003-05-09T18:29:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*But why would he ask the doctors not to speak to the press? Thatā€™s what weā€™re speculating about here. Is it because he has something to hide or (more possible) because he wants to control the flow of information to suit his own purposes? \*\* I thought I answered this. Two reasons off the top of my head: (a) Heā€™s a private person who doesnā€™t want to talk to the media (While I canā€™t see me having the testicular fortitude to cut off my arm, Iā€™m that way. If something happened to me, I wouldnā€™t talk to the media, and Iā€™d get upset if I had to tell it to every two-bit reporter who called looking for a statement. Iā€™d also request family and friends refrain from giving statements. Iā€™m so media averse, I cross the street to avoid the ubiquitous news vans and cameras throughout NYC.) (b) He thinks there may be profit in the story, so he wants to keep it under wraps rather than give it away for free. Why is there anything wrong with either version? Why do you feel entitled to a story? If heā€™s got something to hide, what is it to you? _(not picking on you personally, **dantheman** )_ ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/56 "2003-05-09T18:43:46Z")
I donā€™t feel entitled to anything, and if he was not talking to the press out of some sense of privacy, I can understand that. But then he did give an interview later. Anyway, itā€™s more likely he just doesnā€™t want to deal with all the hubbub than he has something to hide. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/57 "2003-05-09T18:53:36Z")
Given what little I know, my theory on the press conference was that it was a _here it is, now leave me alone_ deal after being mercilessly badgered by 260,000 or so different reporters. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/58 "2003-05-09T19:24:47Z")
I would like to echo what **Gary T** said, I will add a little bit more. If you think that 800lb could be shifted off, or the arm could be pulled out, or you should be able to pull half of your forearm out, or that 800 lbs isnā€™t all that heavy, letā€™s try an experiment. Come on over to my house, I have a car that is a little over 3000lbs That is about 750lbs (give or take) on each wheel. Since we donā€™t know the exact weight of the **RIQ** (rock in question) 750# will be assumed to be close enough for experimental purposes. **Astro, Chronos, and Rusalka** will lay their arms down on the pavement, and I will park the car on top of of their arms. Every couple of hours I will be happy to come back and check on you. First one out gets a case of beer. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/59 "2003-05-09T19:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \* > \*\*Iā€™m quite willing to believe **klas** ā€™ speculation on why he isnā€™t saying more. Either a book or a film is probably on the way (though Iā€™d personally prefer a book, something along the lines of _Into Thin Air_). \*\* Whatā€™s wrong with you people? Canā€™t someone just want to keep his personal life, personal? This guy moved to CO to climb mountains, quit engineering to work in a sporting goods store. You really think he gives a crap about being on TV? No amount of anything would get me to give a TV interview no matter what the story was. The media makes billions of dollars a year and do it by invading peoples lives. The media are the chief exploiters in the country. Could be he doesnā€™t want any part of it. Not everybody wants 15 minutes of fame. Personally, I think there is something wrong with people that do. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/60 "2003-05-09T20:00:44Z")
**Rick** : Donā€™t forget to give them a dull knife and a stick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051.md?page=4)