# Did the hiker amputee have no choice? Is there something odd about this story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051 "2003-05-09T04:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![malaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@malaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malaka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/61 "2003-05-09T20:19:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terminus Est \* > \*\ ***Rick** : Don’t forget to give them a dull knife and a stick. \*\* What stick?!?!? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/62 "2003-05-09T20:57:47Z")
> [@](#): > > "For reasons he wouldn’t explain, Ralston withheld some details of his story. A publicist told reporters there would be no follow-up interviews soon and no interviews whatsoever with the doctors who treated him. " Amazing as it may seem, there are still some people in this day and age who have no desire to be a celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/63 "2003-05-09T20:58:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by malaka \* > \*\*What stick?!?!? > > 😉 \*\* The 4 inch long, 1/2 inch thick stick that you can both use to tighten a turniquet and as a lever to move 800 lb boulders. This thing I find freaky is that he tied the turniquet AFTER cutting off his arm. I thought it would make more sense to do it before, and I think it’s amazing that he managed to tie it before he bled to death. -lv ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/64 "2003-05-09T21:11:55Z")
"I’m wondering if there was anything else a person could do, short of cutting off the arm in a situation like this? " Yell? ---
**Author:** ![bugg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bugg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bugg)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/65 "2003-05-09T21:13:57Z")
Aron received his bachelors of science in mechanical engineering here at Carnegie Mellon University (go Tartans!) and tried to move the boulder by rigging a system of pullies and otherwise trying to maximize his mechanical advantage. \ When a Carnegie Mellon engineering grad says there was no other option, I’ll believe him. So, let’s have noone else say there are no famous engineering grads, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/66 "2003-05-10T02:10:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terminus Est \* > \*\ ***Rick** : Don’t forget to give them a dull knife and a stick. \*\* :smack: Sorry I was posting at work and trying to finish. 🙂 Sure they can each have a stick, things to make turniquets with, water, a fair selection of both sharp and dull knives, and if they ask nice I can even rig a keyboard so they can post their experiences to this thread. (probably have to type 1 handed however) They can’t have a cell phone however. Oh and **Handy** I’m guessing that there was yelling aplenty about 0.01 seconds after that rock landed. Along with some serious cussing. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/67 "2003-05-10T02:29:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*Based on your obvious lack of personal information about rocks and “hikey type-stuff” not to mention your tragic misappropriation of an Einstein quote as a signature, it’s obvious you have no reason to consider yourself worthy of debate. > > Please stop being static in the discussion. \*\* That there is a pretty pissy attitude for GQ - just so you know. Regarding the dude with the rock - if it took three people and a hydrolic crane to remove the rock to retrieve the arm it doesn’t really seem that improbable that the guy couldn’t get it out himself. I’m assuming if he had any other options he would have exercised them before hacking off his own limb. Finally, as to why he wants to keep some details to himself - well, maybe they’re really nasty details. This also seems perfectly normal. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/68 "2003-05-10T04:04:07Z")
A point I haven’t seen brought up here; Aron was in the news in February as surviving an avalanche that well could have killed him. Perhaps that experience with the press what was what spurred a quickly-hired publicity agent. In looking at the huge amount of press in a quick google on the subject, I can imagine that the family would want someone experienced aid in handling the onslaught. With someone recovering from traumatic injury, that’s most sensible. The first tactic of a PA is to gather the information, handle all incoming inquiry, and decide appropriate press venues. I don’t think this is a matter of “hiding” anything, just a family overwhelmed with attention, and trying best to cope with it. An astute PA has an eye to the market value of the story. Don’t see anything wrong with that, under that pressure.This is a rather yakking[article](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_1942878,00.html), but shows how Aron’s press onslaught plays. One facet of the story I didn’t catch on the first go-round; Aron was pinned against a ledge, standing up, from **pipper’s** link, and further reading. Somehow, I always assumed he was pinned laying down. Standing up for several days and then sawing your arm off with a dull blade…Aron has my incredibly steely composed huevos of the year award. PS: From the above site; ““If you think about it, The Odyssey is a survival story,” Meigs said. “And Robinson Crusoe is about a man who survived a shipwreck”” Gotta wonder about National Geographic’s current brain trust… ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/69 "2003-05-10T04:07:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Maybe he doesn’t, but how come the doctors who treated him aren’t allowed to talk or won’t talk? \*\* Well, there’s the HIPAA to consider: “Under the new privacy regulations, hospitals are barred from releasing any information about patients other than their location and general condition (i.e. undetermined, good, fair, serious or critical) - and then only to people who can identify patients by name. This means that reporters covering accidents and other incidents in which people require medical care can no longer rely on hospitals for details about patients and their injuries.” (from [AHA News.com](http://www.hospitalconnect.com/ahanews/jsp/display.jsp?dcrpath=AHA/NewsStory_Article/data/AHA_News_030421_Hospitals_educate&domain=AHANEWS)) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/70 "2003-05-10T04:39:14Z")
For those of you who have been asking why people are skeptical about this story, the answer is that that’s what we do here on the SDMB. We’re skeptical about everything. Granted that in this case it probably means that we’re being absurdly nitpicky about an honest story, that’s still what we have to do if we want to be thorough in our skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/71 "2003-05-10T04:50:44Z")
Quote from the link in the OP: "Swanke estimated the rescue and retrieval operations will cost the Park Service more than $50,000. He said Ralston will not be liable for any of the Park Service expenses. The Park Service does not bill for search-and-rescue operations unless they were necessary because of a blatant violation of park policies. In Ralston’s case, he said, there was no violation." Who else besides me thinks that not telling anyone where you are going and when you will return should be a blatant violation of park policies? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/72 "2003-05-10T05:02:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*…that’s what we do here on the SDMB. We’re skeptical about everything. \*\* You got a cite for that, pal? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/73 "2003-05-10T08:05:36Z")
**InternetLegend,** thanks for bringing up HIPAA. It’s worth noting that this is federal policy and could be the basis for a big fat lawsuit about the release of personal health information if breached. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/74 "2003-05-10T08:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\* But have you ever tried tying a loop around your arm one-handed? Because that’s not one that everyone practices and shows off._\* Ye gads. Just for your sake, I self-tourniquetted one-handed with a prusik string and a metal nut tool earlier today. It took me all of a minute. Yes, both are items that a climber would have on his person and accessible with one hand. It is just not a hard thing to do, OK ? ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/75 "2003-05-10T09:26:35Z")
is it normal not to carry a phone while ‘adventuring’ alone? ---
**Author:** ![shep\_proudfoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@shep\_proudfoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shep_proudfoot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/76 "2003-05-10T09:38:38Z")
My question is how an 800 pound rock fell on this guy’s arm to begin with. I don’t see how this was possible. Was he sleeping and it rolled? Was he high? Maybe he was taking a pee on the boulder and the rock became offended. Earthquake perhaps? Why did this dude travel alone? I would tell somebody if I was going out trekking in some strange Utah wilderness. I want someone to find me in case of getting shot by a crazed Mormon, bit by a rattlesnake, or God dropping a boulder on my elbow. I hope that he did not lose his eating, writing and spanking his monkey hand. He wont be climbing up any ladders. House painting is out. Cant pick his nose and scratch his behind at the same time. Well, he couldn’t find his rear end with both hands or what happened to him wouldnt of. Maybe he can be a drummer in a Def Leppard tribute band. Yes, I am making fun of him. SP ---
**Author:** ![Newton\_meter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/57b2e6/32.png) [@Newton\_meter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Newton_meter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/77 "2003-05-10T10:32:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Only an absolute idiot goes on a wilderness hike alone, and he apparently didn’t even have any communications (cell phone, sattellite phone, or 2-way radio).** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > **However, we _can_ easily agree that he was out where he shouldn’t have been on his lonesome.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*On the other hand (pardon the pun) he shouldn’t have been hiking alone. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rusalka \* > **I’m not saying he’s making this up by any means, the situation just seems so bizarre. He was hiking alone, without telling anyone exactly where he was going, who’s to say that he was thinking clearly when he cut off his arm?** Lots of people hike alone. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shijinn \* > \*\*is it normal not to carry a phone while ‘adventuring’ alone? \*\* What’s normal? I don’t even carry a _watch_ while ‘adventuring’ alone. And who the hell has a satellite phone? I don’t know how much a 2-way radio would weigh, but I’m sure not going to throw one in my backpack and then hump it around for miles on the off chance I’ll get pinned under a boulder and still be able to reach and use the radio. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/78 "2003-05-10T11:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Duality \* > Quote from the link in the OP: > "Swanke estimated the rescue and retrieval operations will cost the Park Service more than $50,000. He said Ralston will not be liable for any of the Park Service expenses. The Park Service does not bill for search-and-rescue operations unless they were necessary because of a blatant violation of park policies. > > In Ralston’s case, he said, there was no violation." > > Who else besides me thinks that not telling anyone where you are going and when you will return should be a blatant violation of park policies? I know this is incredible for some of you folks to believe, but it’s still a free country and you’re still allowed to travel wherever the heck you want without having to tell Big Brother. That said, it’s sort of _stupid_ not to tell anyone, etc. etc. but so far they haven’t outlawed stupidity, either. My college roommate was this sort of character, hiking solo for months at a time through places like Yellowstone and Yosemite. Did she tell anyone where she was going? Yes - “I’m hiking this and such trail through this park”. Did she say when she’d be back? Yes - “Call this person if I’m not back/you don’t hear from on this and such a date”. Is that going to be a big help if, on a 10 day trip, she falls into a ditch on day 3? No. Folks, it’s called _wilderness_ because it’s _wild_ - no civilization and not a heck of a lot of people (maybe none). There’s no pay phones, your cell phone is probably out of range, and even if you did call 911 it might take a day or two to get to you. Yes, there are lightweight two-way radios but if you’re stuck in the bottom of a canyon it might not be of help, the rocks might block the transmission. The only thing that strikes me as bizarre about this story is the amount of skepticism I’ve read here. THIS thread is the bizarreness. I mean really - you folks who think shifting an 800 lb (or whatever) boulder should be possible. Have you been watching too many Arnold Schwarzenegger movies or something? We’re not talking about rolling a big round ball along a smooth flat surface. Sure, even wimpy little me can shift, say, a car (which weighs more than 800lbs) if it’s on level pavement AND _I’m not pinned under it_ but we’re talking about something that doesn’t have wheels and probably isn’t all nicely balanced and symmetrical. And the guy is not going to be able to get ideal leverage with his armed pinned under the rock. Tie a tourniquet one-handed? Folks, you’d be _amazed_ at what you can do if you have to, if your life depends on it. And the idea he was doing something wrong — jimminy cricket, it’s called an _accident_. I sorry if you can’t understand that it is possible to everything right and _still_ have something go wrong. He’s not the first “adventurer” to cut off a body part in order the say the rest of the body, it’s just that for some reason the media has picked up the story this time and run with it. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/79 "2003-05-10T12:13:27Z")
There’s nothing bizarre about the skepticism here. We weren’t there, so we’re skeptical about things. It would be bizarre if we were there and were still skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051/80 "2003-05-10T13:35:32Z")
I don’t find his story suspicious and I’m fairly cynical. The only thing I find odd is that they felt the need to go retrieve the mashed arm. Yuck. Clearly they could never re-attach the thing. And now what are they going to do with it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-hiker-amputee-have-no-choice-is-there-something-odd-about-this-story/174051.md?page=5)