# Did the Maya really practice cut-out-the-heart human sacrifice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382 "2006-12-08T19:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/1 "2006-12-08T19:19:41Z")
I haven’t scene [_Apocalypto_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypto) yet, but I understand it involves a lot of human sacrifice, of the cut-out-the-victim’s-still-beating-heart-with-an-obsidian-knife variety, like the Aztecs. But did the [Maya](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization) really do that? I recall some education films in junior high school which portrayed the Maya as practicing human sacrifice, but on a very occasional basis, and they did it by tossing the victim (generally a young, female Maya – not a foreign POW, like the Aztecs preferred) into a well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/2 "2006-12-08T19:44:34Z")
This article, [Maya Human Sacrifice … Say it isn’t so.](http://ambergriscaye.com/museum/digit14.html) has this to say: > [@](#): > > The usual method of such a sacrifice [among the Maya] was decapitation in a public ceremony. Aside from decapitation, the favored method irnPostclassic times was a trick acquired from the Mexican cultures to the north, the removal of the heart. Women and children were sacrificed just as often as men The intended victim was stripped and painted blue before being led to a courtyard or temple where the victim would be placed face-up over a convex altar-like stone also painted blue. The arms and legs of the victim were held by specially designated priests while a fourth, called the nacom, would penetrate the victim’s chest with a flint knife just below the left breast. Reaching inside the chest cavity, the nacom would pull out the still beating heart and hand it to another priest, who would then smear the blood on that idol to which the sacrifice had been made. Although I haven’t found more authoritative references yet, the author seems to have been a Ph.D. archeologist. The picture of the “peaceful” Maya has shifted greatly in recent years, and they seem to have been much bloodier that previously supposed (though not nearly on the scale of the Aztecs). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/3 "2006-12-08T19:53:43Z")
I believe you, **Colibri** , I’m just wondering if our Doper docs could explain how it’s all done without saws and ribspreaders and whatnot. The heart seems pretty well protected, and a single inferior cut won’t cut all the arteries and veins leading to the heart, nor the pericardium which surrounds it. Was all this literally ripped away by hand? What sort of strength would that take (I have enough trouble ripping a chicken breastbone by hand), and why didn’t the priest’s hand get stuck in the ribs and the intercostal muscles? How long does the heart beat once ripped away from its blood supply, and can you do it in a melon-ball type scooping action quick enough to bring it out still beating? I uh, hesitate to ask for anecdotal evidence, but it really seems like a hands-on kind of question. Maybe a hunter or butcher? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/4 "2006-12-08T20:02:54Z")
Yes, it was practiced. [http://www.studgen.uni-mainz.de/sose03/schwerp3/expose/robicsek.htm](http://www.studgen.uni-mainz.de/sose03/schwerp3/expose/robicsek.htm) “Contrary to these views, we now realize that the Maya princes abhorred neither raids on their neighbors nor the sacrifice of their own subjects. In the course of these hostilities high-ranking personages, including some of the rulers themselves, were often captured and later sacrificed. Judging from the archaeological evidence, especially vase paintings, this sacrificial activity of the Classic and Early Postclassic Maya, although widespread, did not approximate the numbers of wholesale killings by the Central Mexicans or even the Late Postclassic Toltec-Maya. Surviving records also indicate that the Classic Maya heart sacrifice was a lofty ceremony, probably performed in the main plaza of the ceremonial center and accompanied by pomp and circumstance. The ceremony of heart sacrifice itself underwent profound changes as the centuries passed. During the Classic period it was characterized by the high social standing of the shaman-sacrificer and probably of his victim as well. The heart removal was performed with the victim in a supine supported posture, probably using the technique of transverse anterior thoracotomy. In the Late Postclassic period, the number of heart sacrifices increased sharply and the ceremony was characterized by Mexican attributes, such as the flaying of the victim and occasionally the eating of his flesh. At this time, some of the ritual heart removals were performed with the victim in an upright position, using a left anterior intercostal approach. The ceremony persisted for a significant time even after the Spanish Conquest, during which period some of the attributes of Christianity were intermingled with the ancient Maya ritual.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/5 "2006-12-08T20:04:16Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I believe you, **Colibri** , I’m just wondering if our Doper docs could explain how it’s all done without saws and ribspreaders and whatnot. The heart seems pretty well protected, and a single inferior cut won’t cut all the arteries and veins leading to the heart, nor the pericardium which surrounds it. Was all this literally ripped away by hand? What sort of strength would that take (I have enough trouble ripping a chicken breastbone by hand), and why didn’t the priest’s hand get stuck in the ribs and the intercostal muscles? How long does the heart beat once ripped away from its blood supply, and can you do it in a melon-ball type scooping action quick enough to bring it out still beating? I uh, hesitate to ask for anecdotal evidence, but it really seems like a hands-on kind of question. Maybe a hunter or butcher? [/QUOTE] Haven’t you seen Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/6 "2006-12-08T20:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Haven’t you seen Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? -FrL- [/QUOTE] So if I go see Apocalypto and it sucks, I’m now going to have to start quoting lines from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom in the theater. Hell, I might anyway. “$MayanName! Cover your heart!” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/7 "2006-12-08T20:16:11Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I uh, hesitate to ask for anecdotal evidence, but it really seems like a hands-on kind of question. Maybe a hunter or butcher? [/QUOTE] I think this is a job for **gabriela**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/8 "2006-12-08T20:17:59Z")
I keep imagining the following: Victim: What’s that? Shaman: It’s my badge. Victim: ‘Hello, My Name Is Imhoxil’? Shaman: Yeah. It’s my first day. Victim: You’re a trainee? Shaman: Sort of. I’ve read all the training pamphlets and I’ve watched the video. Victim: You ARE a trainee! Shaman: And I’ve been practicing on goats. Victim: Goats? Shaman: And frogs. Victim: I want to see my regular witch doctor. I want a second opinion here. Shaman: You won’t believe how hard it is to get your whole hand into a frog’s chest cavity. Victim: I don’t want to know. Shaman: I mean, they hop all over the place, won’t keep still… Victim: Look, can we just get on with this? This blue paint itches. Shaman: Okay, I make a small cut on the left… Victim: MY left, you idiot. Shaman: Oh, right. Say, this is harder than it looks. Victim: Use the other end of the knife. Shaman: What do you think I am, an idiot? I read the Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/9 "2006-12-08T20:35:38Z")
Is most of the Mayan research based on interpreting the paintings on walls? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/10 "2006-12-08T20:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] Is most of the Mayan research based on interpreting the paintings on walls? [/QUOTE] No, there are skeletons to be analyzed, artifacts to be examined, and [glyphs](http://www.ancientscripts.com/maya.html) to be read, too. Oh, and time travel. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/11 "2006-12-08T21:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] Is most of the Mayan research based on interpreting the paintings on walls? [/QUOTE] Although it’s more on the Aztecs than the Maya, [this article](http://www.livescience.com/history/human_sacrifice_050123.html) describes some of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/12 "2006-12-08T21:33:23Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] The ceremony persisted for a significant time even after the Spanish Conquest, during which period some of the attributes of Christianity were intermingled with the ancient Maya ritual." [/QUOTE] . . . PRIEST: This is the body of Christ . . . Yes, yes, I know it’s the body of Itsamk’anahk the cacao merchant! It’s called transubstantiation, OK?! Just eat it! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/13 "2006-12-08T23:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I think this is a job for **gabriela**. 😉 [/QUOTE] Good Lord, I think \*\*gabriela \*\*waits until the heart stops beating! 😃 (plus, she’s on hiatus, darn it.) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/14 "2006-12-09T06:24:55Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] The ceremony persisted for a significant time even after the Spanish Conquest, during which period some of the attributes of Christianity were intermingled with the ancient Maya ritual." [/QUOTE] now that sounds like an interesting combination ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/15 "2006-12-09T13:59:05Z")
[highjack] Saw Apocalypto and it looked like some victims were still conscious for a few seconds to see their still beating heart lifted up - is that possible?[/highjack] I had the opportunity to handle some “Mayan” tools this summer and was very surprised at how sharp the Obsidian knives and spears were --they were made by the indigenous people now in the Yucatan using traditional methods (it was claimed) and, they really were every bit as sharp as a modern metal Rambo-Bowie knife. I didn’t “get” that until I handled them (and cut myself) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/16 "2006-12-09T14:45:51Z")
[QUOTE=jimmmy] [highjack] Saw Apocalypto and it looked like some victims were still conscious for a few seconds to see their still beating heart lifted up - is that possible?[/highjack] I had the opportunity to handle some “Mayan” tools this summer and was very surprised at how sharp the Obsidian knives and spears were --they were made by the indigenous people now in the Yucatan using traditional methods (it was claimed) and, they really were every bit as sharp as a modern metal Rambo-Bowie knife. I didn’t “get” that until I handled them (and cut myself) [/QUOTE] No surprise. [Obsidian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian) is a form of **glass.** ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/17 "2006-12-09T18:06:01Z")
Here is a representation of [O-Chak](http://www.pauahtun.org/DesktopIcons/s_m1_god_b.gif). According to David Freidel and Linda Schele, the axe he carries is the “principal instrument of decapitation sacrifice”. The book Maya Cosmos: Three Thousand Years on the Shamans Path, has about 2 dozen items in the index relating to decapitation. There are stela from Chich’en Itza that depict winners from the ball game carrying the heads of the losers. Unfortunatly, I couldn’t find a decent image of it to show. Also, keep in mind that there were master stone workers in the Mayan world who had skills that we can’t really comprehend. Odds are that the axes used were not obsidan which was usually made into smaller blades for blood letting rituals, plus just isn’t that great for an axe head. They were probably chert or flint. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/18 "2006-12-09T20:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=jimmmy] [highjack] Saw Apocalypto and it looked like some victims were still conscious for a few seconds to see their still beating heart lifted up - is that possible?[/highjack] I had the opportunity to handle some “Mayan” tools this summer and was very surprised at how sharp the Obsidian knives and spears were --they were made by the indigenous people now in the Yucatan using traditional methods (it was claimed) and, they really were every bit as sharp as a modern metal Rambo-Bowie knife. I didn’t “get” that until I handled them (and cut myself) [/QUOTE] I read an article a long time ago (no cites) that showed a picture of a typical steel scalpel and a similarly sized obsidian blade side by side, magnified about 500 times. The steel scalpel had large valleys and depressions that could easily be filled with foreign material that was difficult to clean out. The obsidian blade still looked smooth with a very thin edge. The point was that the obsidian blade was easy to sterilize, maintained a sharp edge for a long time, and was seriously being considered as an alternative to surgical steel scalpels. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/19 "2006-12-10T03:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=medstar] I read an article a long time ago (no cites) that showed a picture of a typical steel scalpel and a similarly sized obsidian blade side by side, magnified about 500 times. The steel scalpel had large valleys and depressions that could easily be filled with foreign material that was difficult to clean out. The obsidian blade still looked smooth with a very thin edge. The point was that the obsidian blade was easy to sterilize, maintained a sharp edge for a long time, and was seriously being considered as an alternative to surgical steel scalpels. [/QUOTE] If they hadn’t invented laser scapels, they might of. But the problem with obsidian is that it’s brittle and a small shard couldn’t be seen easily by X-ray. Operate and leave a small peice of razor-sharp glass in your patient, and you are in \*big \*trouble. **WhyNot** hiatus? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382/20 "2006-12-10T04:30:12Z")
A few years ago, I visited [Chichén Itzá](http://www.mysteriousplaces.com/mayan/TourEntrance.html). The tour guide was a Mayan archaeology student. According to him the beating heart sacrifice was only for captured enemies. He was sedated, but alive before his heart was taken and placed in a chuchmal (sorry I couldn’t find an english website explaining it) a sort of bowl. The priests then ate the heart, to absorb the enemy’s power. The sacrifices in the well, were children, both male and female born during the “ghost” week in their calendar, sometime in August, IIRC. These children were raised knowing they would become godlets, so they had no fear of the sacrifice. They too, were drugged, dressed in fine clothing and weighted down with gold and silver jewlery, and dropped into the well. I saw the well at Chichén Itzá, it was very far down to the water, then the water was very deep. They had just started to send divers into the well to retrieve some artifacts. They estimated the gold and bones went down ten to fifteen feet. Also, about the game that the Mayans played, our guide told us that it was the captain of the \*winning \* team that was beheaded. To be sacrificed to the gods was an honor, not a punishment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-maya-really-practice-cut-out-the-heart-human-sacrifice/383382.md?page=2)