# Did the North not create their own statues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066 "2020-08-26T13:36:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/41 "2020-08-27T19:39:15Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > There are statues of General Custer at West Point and his hometown of Monroe Michigan. And people are not happy about him being honored for being an Indian Fighter. Sherman was an Indian Fighter as well, a fairly brutal one IIRC… You’re probably thinking of Phil Sheridan, although William T. Sherman certainly had a hand in the post-1865 Indian Wars: [Philip Sheridan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sheridan#Indian_Wars) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/42 "2020-08-27T19:55:21Z")
As noted above, many small towns have statues of Civil War-era U.S. Army generals and soldiers (many symbolically facing south). Washington, D.C. of course has many things named after U.S. heroes of the war, many with statues, including Grant, Garfield, Dupont, Logan, Scott, Sheridan and Sherman Circles, and Lincoln, Seward, Stanton, Farragut, McPherson and Thomas (huzzah!) Squares, not to mention Lincoln Park and the Fort Lincoln neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/43 "2020-08-27T19:56:38Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > the guy who could carve a mountain, **Borglund** > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Gutzon **Borglund** didn’t carve Stone Mountain. Sorry, grew up in the Black Hills of South Dakota… so… > **[Gutzon Borglum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutzon_Borglum)** > > John Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum (March 25, 1867 – March 6, 1941) was an American sculptor best known for his work on Mount Rushmore. He is also associated with various other public works of art across the U.S., including Stone Mountain in Georgia, statues of Union General Philip Sheridan in Washington D.C. and in Chicago, as well as a bust of Abraham Lincoln which was exhibited in the White House by Theodore Roosevelt and which is now held in the United States Capitol crypt in Washington, D.C.... ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/44 "2020-08-27T20:48:55Z")
No, I did mean William T. Sherman although Sheridan was a SOB as well. He waged war on the Lakota for defending themselves and then set up the reservation system in Oklahoma and South Dakota. Pretty much brutal everywhere he went. > **[Five Civil War Generals Who Went on to Fight in the Indian Wars](https://werehistory.org/generals-indian-wars/)** > > William Tecumseh Sherman, Philip H. Sheridan, and more… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/45 "2020-08-27T21:48:31Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Sherman was an Indian Fighter as well Kind of ironic considering his middle name. I’d still rename Ft. Gordon after him just on principle. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/46 "2020-09-08T02:36:59Z")
Huh, today I learned something… > **[The creator of Mount Rushmore’s forgotten ties to white supremacy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/03/mount-rushmore-gutzon-borglum-klan-stone-mountain/)** > > Sculptor Gutzon Borglum was deeply involved with the Ku Klux Klan while designing the Confederate memorial at Stone Mountain outside Atlanta ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/47 "2020-09-08T06:31:15Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Our city has both a Lee and Grant boulevard. Given the subject matter of this thread and the geological concerns thereof, do you think it is helpful or non-helpful to not mention where that city is? Big difference between those street names being in San Francisco, CA versus Meridian, MS. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/48 "2020-09-08T07:06:28Z")
Sorry. I meant “geographical” of course. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/49 "2020-09-08T14:54:56Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > No, I did mean William T. Sherman although Sheridan was a SOB as well. He waged war on the Lakota for defending themselves and then set up the reservation system in Oklahoma and South Dakota. Pretty much brutal everywhere he went. I wonder if that is partly why they could not put up statues for them? I mean yes, they helped defeat the confederacy and free the slaves. That makes them good. But, then they went on to fight the indians and that makes them bad. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/50 "2020-09-08T15:20:03Z")
I don’t think anyone back then gave a rat’s ass about how a general treated the Indians. Plus, as I and others have mentioned, there are statues – they just weren’t constructed by a white supremacist organization to put black people in their place, so the Northern statues aren’t as prominent. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/51 "2020-09-08T17:59:55Z")
Are you sure Lee isnt named after any of the other famous Lee’s? ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/52 "2020-09-08T18:17:53Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Huh, today I learned something… > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/03/mount-rushmore-gutzon-borglum-klan-stone-mountain/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/03/mount-rushmore-gutzon-borglum-klan-stone-mountain/) Actually I think almost everyone back then had some connection with the klan. They were everywhere. Probably to Borglum they were just another contract. The man who started the Crazy Horse manument also asked Borglum to build it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/53 "2020-09-11T05:43:32Z")
One of the statues that was recently removed due to BLM-related protests was that of Frank Rizzo. Deservedly so, ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/54 "2020-09-11T07:27:10Z")
On a related note, all those controversial Army bases named after Cornfed generals are in the South. Presumably they were named for the sake of community relations – in a time when they only needed to worry about their white neighbors; I should hope that no longer applies. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/55 "2020-09-11T15:34:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > One of the statues that was recently removed due to BLM-related protests was that of Frank Rizzo. Deservedly so, Oh god yes. Rizzo was a perfect example of the worst of both political parties. ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/56 "2020-09-11T20:58:03Z")
Who actually put up a statue of Frank Rizzo?! ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/57 "2020-09-11T21:15:21Z")
> [@razordance](#): > > On a related note, all those controversial Army bases named after Cornfed generals are in the South. Presumably they were named for the sake of community relations – in a time when they only needed to worry about their white neighbors; I should hope that no longer applies As I understood it, the Pentagon named forts after generals who were from the state in which they were located - thus Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, North Carolina, was named after Braxton Bragg, from Warrenton, Fort Gordon in Augusta, Georgia was named for John Gordon from Upson County, Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas named after John Bell Hood, etc. Not all forts in the South were named for Confederate generals, though - Fort McPherson in Atlanta was named after General James McPherson, who was killed at the Battle of Atlanta fighting Hood’s rebel army. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066/58 "2020-09-11T21:55:59Z")
> [@razordance](#): > > Who actually put up a statue of Frank Rizzo?! [This piece](https://www.phillymag.com/news/2020/01/28/frank-rizzo-statue-sculptor/) from January says that it was a group of supporters who raised the money to get it done. I have heard that there are large swaths of Pennsylvania where you can find an abundance of right-wingers (the expression goes "it is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, with Alabama between them”). [This other article](https://medium.com/hindsights/whats-missing-from-the-frank-rizzo-debate-the-history-of-where-it-stands-a909d34d5ca7) describes the history of the plaza location of the statue, which is in its own way, an appropriate setting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-north-not-create-their-own-statues/919066.md?page=2)