# Did the Page FISA applications omit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 26, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620 "2018-07-26T15:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/141 "2018-07-28T19:26:32Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Then they should have said “We know it is Candidate X funding it, we speculate candidate X is going to do this with it”. Throwing the speculate in front understates the level of certainty that it is an opposing candidate doing the funding. Did you even read the document? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/142 "2018-07-28T20:07:03Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > Only if one assumes that they knew the identity of the funding candidate with certainty, and that that information was materially relevant. Clearly you think the information was known and relevant, but the list of those who apparently don’t includes me, many other posters here who have made their cases already, the FBI and their lawyers, and four separate Republican FISA court justices. This says it was known: > **[Home | Sara A. Carter](https://saraacarter.com)** > > Taking Back The Story ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/143 "2018-07-28T20:08:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Did you even read the document? What is available. Did you? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/144 "2018-07-28T20:25:51Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > Only if one assumes that they knew the identity of the funding candidate with certainty, and that that information was materially relevant. Clearly you think the information was known and relevant, but the list of those who apparently don’t includes me, many other posters here who have made their cases already, the FBI and their lawyers, and four separate Republican FISA court justices. In regards to the judges: if they were not told something which is relevant, their decision does not indicate what they thought of the relevance. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/145 "2018-07-28T21:07:31Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > In regards to the judges: if they were not told something which is relevant, their decision does not indicate what they thought of the relevance. What I have seen is that they were aware of the opposition, but that is a moot point because _nowadays they do know who it was for sure_, **and AFAIK they did not complain of something being amiss.** And, AFAIK the FBI relied less on the dossier on every request made after the original FISA regarding subsequent extensions for that FISA. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/146 "2018-07-28T21:36:03Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > This says it was known: > > [Home | Sara A. Carter](https://saraacarter.com/ex-british-spy-knew-who-funded-dossier-fbi-told-secret-court-something-different/) No, it does not, the writer has to rely on a supposition in the end. The cite you pushed twice had to go for “would” as in possible, not certain. And BTW it should be noted here that Sara Carter, your source there, is also a contributor to FOX news. I’m not surprised at all for that omission. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/147 "2018-07-28T22:20:34Z")
Hey! This is Sara Carter, we’re talking about, here! What, you’re gonna say you never heard of _Sara Carter_!? _The_ Sara Carter! Not like she’s just some blogger. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/148 "2018-07-28T22:22:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No, it does not, the writer has to rely on a supposition in the end. The cite you pushed twice had to go for “would” as in possible, not certain. > > And BTW it should be noted here that Sara Carter, your source there, is also a contributor to FOX news. I’m not surprised at all for that omission. It’s as if you are arguing the political leanings of a source should factor in to your analysis of the evidence they present. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/149 "2018-07-28T22:38:09Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > It’s as if you are arguing the political leanings of a source should factor in to your analysis of the evidence they present. At least one person in the thread is doing this. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I don’t have any hopes the application will be “impeached”. The omission does, however bolster my beliefs in a “deep state out to get Trump”. And, when I hear/read the mainstream media deny there were any omissions, it further drives me to alternative media sources. I suspect there are many others like me, and the mainstream media, if it wants to reverse its declining viewership, should, I think, start to admit things like this omission. My guess is they will continue to be “all in” on assuming their viewers are useful idiots though. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/150 "2018-07-28T22:40:47Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > It’s as if you are arguing the political leanings of a source should factor in to your analysis of the evidence they present. Christopher Steele is of what party, again? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/151 "2018-07-28T22:47:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Christopher Steele is of what party, again? PAID by the Clinton campaign to come up with stuff against Trump, see the article I linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/152 "2018-07-28T22:50:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > At least one person in the thread is doing this. I am analyzing evidence, not presenting evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/153 "2018-07-28T23:04:51Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > PAID by the Clinton campaign to come up with stuff against Trump, see the article I linked to. So, you’re aware of some evidence that Steele did something other than collect and report information? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/154 "2018-07-28T23:08:16Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I am analyzing evidence, not presenting evidence. Me too, and you spectacularly missed that indeed I did use the system you are using, if the political leanings are _supposed_ to be used to dismiss dossiers, then it applies also to posts on a message board. And more so when the sources a poster is using are almost entirely coming from a single partisan source like [del]Pravda[/del] Fox news. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/155 "2018-07-28T23:21:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Me too, and you spectacularly missed that indeed I did use the system you are using, if the political leanings are _supposed_ to be used to dismiss dossiers, then it applies also to posts on a message board. > > And more so when the sources a poster is using are almost entirely coming from a single partisan source like [del]Pravda[/del] Fox news. 🙂 There is also Nunes, saying the FBI knew. He is probably privy to classified info that others are not privy to. Luckily I had another source, so I wouldn’t have to debate his wording and credibility. And at any rate, my debate opposition needs to pick one of two claims: 1. It is obvious from the footnote who the funder was. Or 2. The FBI didn’t know who the funder was. It started out as 1. Now it is 2. I think if\when this plays out among the actual players, it will be 1. So this branch of the debate is kind of a waste of time.It is fun though. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/156 "2018-07-28T23:24:44Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So, you’re aware of some evidence that Steele did something other than collect and report information? That is a possibility I think a judge would keep in mind when weighing evidence for a warrant. Knowing the funder would affect the weight (at least if I were the judge). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/157 "2018-07-28T23:26:12Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > PAID by the Clinton campaign to come up with stuff against Trump, see the article I linked to. You keep referring to the Clinton campaign as the source. That is factually untrue. Christopher Steele was the source. So riddle me this: Steele finds out all the stuff about Trump, he reports it back through Fusion GPS. Steele then gets so alarmed about Trump that he goes to the FBI to warn them of his counterintelligence concerns. _But Steele doesn’t tell Fusion GPS, Perkins Coie, or the Clinton campaign that he’s gone to the FBI._ If Steele were out to get Trump, why wouldn’t he tip off the campaign that the FBI was starting a counterintelligence investigation into Trump’s campaign? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/158 "2018-07-28T23:29:47Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > There is also Nunes, saying the FBI knew. He is probably privy to classified info that others are not privy to. Luckily I had another source, so I wouldn’t have to debate his wording and credibility. Meh, now you do want to rely on Nunes, the one whom you want to ignore the evidence that showed how off base he was? That figures… Since the rest was moot, as pointed before, that is indeed a waste of time, but not as you think. One thing to remember is that the political bias we are talking about is coming from the supporters of Trump, and those indeed are Nunez and Fox news, face it, you are relying on poisoned wells of information. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/159 "2018-07-28T23:30:27Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What is available. Did you? Oh, for fucks’ sake. [https://vault.fbi.gov/d1-release/d1-release/at\_download/file](https://vault.fbi.gov/d1-release/d1-release/at_download/file) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620/160 "2018-07-28T23:38:05Z")
It’s really frustrating in a debate where your opponent starts out with a legal claim, has it proven wring and then shifts into a non-legal framework without admitting their legal claim was in error. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-page-fisa-applications-omit/818620.md?page=9)