# Did the Parkland students really get what they wanted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221 "2018-04-11T15:59:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/141 "2018-05-14T13:11:46Z")
…But…but he’s got an _anecdote!_ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/142 "2018-05-14T14:54:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > by all accounts, [Jeronimo Yanez was a good person](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/01/the-nice-cop) before he panicked and gunned down a father in front of his wife and children There’s a number of good points made in that article, but IMO the best one comes at the end of this passage (helpfully bolded): > [@](#): > > The myth of the persecuted policeman is the foundation of the modern American police army (and make no mistake, it’s a goddamn army, with the line between the police and the military steadily becoming blurrier). They are taught to think of themselves as warriors from Day One at the academy. As one long-time police trainer said: “This nation is at war, whether one choses to admit it, or not.” The same trainer writes, with all apparent seriousness, about the decades-long struggle of the “police survival movement.” If you find yourself thinking he sounds delusional, you’ll be reassured to know that his only goal is to “engage in a nonpolitical, factual discussion of this issue and give you my educated answer” to the question of whether or not police officers should be taught to think of everyone they see as a potential enemy combatant. > > This man, as depressingly (and terrifyingly) stupid as he may be, does have a point. **America is at war—it just happens to be a class war, and the cops are protecting the bad guys.** ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/143 "2018-05-14T16:16:32Z")
No, I don’t think the students got anything they wanted, or will at any point in the foreseeable future. The other day I went to a shooting range to practice pistol marksmanship. I had never been there before. This was in a diverse, metropolitan area, by the way, not out in Hicksville. Upon walking in I was astonished by two things: 1. The place was _insanely_ professional looking. It was like a high-end golf pro shop, for guns. AR and AK type rifles lined the walls, along with every accessory imaginable, all presented, again, like a pro shop or some kind of high-end music store. 2. There were numerous minorities and women there, including (I think) the owner, who was black. There were also numerous white conservative-veteran looking types. Everyone was carrying on in a friendly spirit of companionship, which I was not expecting at all. Nobody was side-eying the black guy with an AR-15 over his shoulder. Everyone was dressed well and I didn’t even see any MAGA hats. 3. The place was packed. 4. I bought a membership there immediately. All I’m interested in doing is the same rifle and pistol marksman shooting I’ve always done, not any “tacticool” shit, although they do seem to offer classes in self defense or tactical shooting. (Sadly they don’t have a shotgun range for clays.) If this is the state of firearms ownership where I live, I can only imagine how it is in the Bible Belt, the South, Texas, etc. These weapons and the right to own them is simply too firmly embedded into America’s culture, and the people who oppose it have _only a tiny fraction_ of the _will to fight for changing it_ as its proponents do of the right to keep it. This is life in America today and I suggest that the Democrats, of which I am a registered voter, just leave it the fuck alone and focus on the economy if they want to ever be elected. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/144 "2018-05-14T17:10:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > most policeman deaths come from accidents ([mostly car crashes](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/how-dangerous-is-police-w_b_6373798.html)) rather than from being shot ([a grand total of 33 in 2013](https://nypost.com/2013/12/30/fewest-police-deaths-by-firearms-in-2013-since-1887/)) An aside: a good place for stats regarding police fatalities is [nleomf.org](http://nleomf.org), the National Law Enforcement Officers’ Memorial Fund website. Specifically: [Officer deaths by year](http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html) [Causes of officer deaths over the past decade](http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html) [Current year preliminary statistics](http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/) The numbers for specific causes of LEO deaths bounce around from year to year like a major-league knuckleball. Even with deaths from all causes combined, it’s best to look at a five-year moving average than to draw conclusions based on a single year. That said, being a police officer is an occupation that’s been gradually getting safer for a long time. In 2013-2017, 716 police officers were killed on the job. In 1961-1965, 713 were. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/145 "2018-05-14T17:46:21Z")
One problem at Parkland is that some of the students have become celebrities off this which can have its downsides. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/146 "2018-05-14T17:52:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > One problem at Parkland is that some of the students have become celebrities off this which can have its downsides. Downsides? You mean like having people that listen to you when you speak or read stuff that you wrote because they are interested in your opinion on this one topic? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/147 "2018-05-14T17:54:27Z")
One downside is that idiots on the Internet will poke fun at you for not getting into UCLA despite a 4.2 GPA. Of course, for that to be a real downside, you’d have to care. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/148 "2018-05-14T19:10:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Downsides? You mean like having people that listen to you when you speak or read stuff that you wrote because they are interested in your opinion on this one topic? Well what about the other kids who were also in the line of fire who dont have speaking contracts now? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/149 "2018-05-14T19:43:13Z")
Yeah, I think on the whole the Parkland survivors would prefer to have their friends still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/150 "2018-05-14T19:54:26Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well what about the other kids who were also in the line of fire who dont have speaking contracts now? So no downsides then? You were just talking out of your ass in that other post? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/151 "2018-05-14T23:10:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well what about the other kids who were also in the line of fire who dont have speaking contracts now? What about them? Not everyone who has been involved in a horrific event wants to become a public figure. Respect their choices and privacy. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/152 "2018-05-15T16:14:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > One problem at Parkland is that some of the students have become celebrities off this which can have its downsides. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Downsides? You mean like having people that listen to you when you speak or read stuff that you wrote because they are interested in your opinion on this one topic? > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well what about the other kids who were also in the line of fire who dont have speaking contracts now? Thanks for your “concern”; [read here about “the other kids who were also in the line of fire who dont have speaking contracts now”.](https://apnews.com/28c91a3af56843d48cede7d5514d7e09/Poetry,-film,-maps:-Parkland-students-quietly-process-trauma) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/153 "2018-05-20T09:35:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > @ **ElvisLives** : > > I think what \*\*adaher \*\*meant was that the Parkland students aren’t gun owners themselves, and so gun restrictions or gun confiscation wouldn’t “affect” them in the sense of taking any of their guns away - they had no guns to lose. > > But the clear backpacks and TSA-like lines do affect them in the sense of inconveniencing them. If they really wanted to preserve each others’ lives they’d advocate raising the driving age to 21. But that’s just how most people think: MY liberty is worth dying for, YOURS is not. That’s what lesson the clear backpacks teach: they’ve lost a rather small amount of privacy in the interests of keeping them safer and many of them think it’s too much. So now they’ve learned something about liberty vs. security. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/154 "2018-05-20T13:24:42Z")
Or perhaps they’ve learned that security theater is feel-good nonsense that doesn’t address any actual issues of security. Love the implication that they don’t “really” want to “preserve each others’ lives” BTW. Classy. . ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/155 "2018-05-20T17:15:28Z")
Pretty much, right? Meanwhile we’ve had ANOTHER school shooting. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/156 "2018-05-20T17:19:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they really wanted to preserve each others’ lives they’d advocate raising the driving age to 21. But that’s just how most people think: MY liberty is worth dying for, YOURS is not. That’s what lesson the clear backpacks teach: they’ve lost a rather small amount of privacy in the interests of keeping them safer and many of them think it’s too much. So now they’ve learned something about liberty vs. security. Can you explain how clear backpacks would have prevented either the parkland shooting, or the more recent one in texas? If not, can you explain how having clear backpacks is supposed to be any sort of response to the student’s polite request that they be protected from being gunned down in their schools? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/157 "2018-05-20T17:23:54Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Or perhaps they’ve learned that security theater is feel-good nonsense that doesn’t address any actual issues of security. > > Love the implication that they don’t “really” want to “preserve each others’ lives” BTW. Classy. > . Do they want to give up their driving privileges? Didn’t think so. Of course they want to preserve each others’ lives, just not at any liberty cost to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/158 "2018-05-20T17:25:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Can you explain how clear backpacks would have prevented either the parkland shooting, or the more recent one in texas? > > If not, can you explain how having clear backpacks is supposed to be any sort of response to the student’s polite request that they be protected from being gunned down in their schools? The proposed gun control measures wouldn’t have stopped any school shootings either. But clear backpacks do solve another serious problem at schools: not mass shooters, but everyday thugs bringing guns and knives to school. So it does make them safer. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/159 "2018-05-20T17:29:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The proposed gun control measures wouldn’t have stopped any school shootings either. But clear backpacks do solve another serious problem at schools: not mass shooters, but everyday thugs bringing guns and knives to school. So it does make them safer. how does it stop kids from bringing guns to school? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221/160 "2018-05-20T17:37:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The proposed gun control measures wouldn’t have stopped any school shootings either. But clear backpacks do solve another serious problem at schools: not mass shooters, but everyday thugs bringing guns and knives to school. So it does make them safer. Proposed gun control measures are to raise the age of buying a gun to 21. That would have prevented the shooting. Proposed gun control measure is to be allowed to take guns away from people that haven’t been convicted of a crime, but are demonstrated to be lets say, mentally imbalanced. That would have prevented the shooting. Some less accepted proposed measures of requiring certification and a license to own these types of guns would have prevented the shooting. Other more extreme proposed measures like completely banning the sale of these style guns, or even of all guns would have prevented the shooting. Now, you are correct in that the actual measures proposed by lawmakers with the power to implement them wouldn’t have prevented the shooting, but insulting the students because lawmakers can’t do their job isn’t really what they were asking for either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-parkland-students-really-get-what-they-wanted/812221.md?page=9)