# Did the press corps save GWBush from total embarassment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538 "2002-05-30T14:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/1 "2002-05-30T14:07:14Z")
Got this in my mailbox this morning: > [@](#): > > Recently Bush met with Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Not far into the conversation, Bush asked the 71 year old statesman an unexpected question: **"Do you have blacks too?"** > > Condoleezza Rice was present and jumped in to save Cardoso from having to answer, informing Bush that in fact Brazil is home to more blacks than any country outside Africa. > > The incident, witnessed by the White House press corps, is more proof that Bush knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the world he lives in–AND LEADS! This is terrifying! > > Equally terrifying: the American media did not report the incident. There seems to be an unwritten rule that while it’s ok to acknowledge Bush’s lack of “intellectual curiosity”, any hard evidence of utter stupidity must be covered up. The original article (in German) can be [found here;](http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,196865,00.html) an English translation [is here.](http://gwbush.com/copies/trans.shtml) Now, I don’t know _Der Spiegel_ (the source of the German article) from a hole in the ground, so its credibility could be anywhere from reliable-and-honest to tabloid sensationalism. Perhaps some European Dopers can shed some light on this? Assuming that everything is true, though, what’s worse – Dubya’s complete cluelessness, or the fact that this information isn’t getting out to the public? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/2 "2002-05-30T14:43:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Equally terrifying: the American media did not report the incident. There seems to be an unwritten rule that while it’s ok to acknowledge Bush’s lack of “intellectual curiosity”, any hard evidence of utter stupidity must be covered up. And even more terrifying, the Guardian, the Mirror, [Yellowtimes.org](http://Yellowtimes.org), and most news organizations that usually slam Bush didn’t report this either, meaning that they’re also in on the cover up! I don’t know much about Der Spiegel either but when you open an article with a statement like “It is said, that, before September 11, George W. Bush thought the Taliban were a Bavarian brass band” I question your journalistic integrity. Bush isn’t the brightest guy (and his lousy public speaking skills make him seem less intelligent than he is) but he’s not Dan Quayle stupid either. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/3 "2002-05-30T14:44:12Z")
**rjung,** it’s crap like this that gives Bush-bashing a bad name. I have a brother who’s a professor at MIT who probably doesn’t know there are blacks in Brazil. I’ve had friends who are doctors and MBA candidates who literally couldn’t find Vietnam on a map. I knew that Brazil has a multiracial society. IIRC, I learned that fact in college – while studying for my history degree - with a concentration in the history of US diplomatic relations with developing nations. IOW, I learned this fact while studying about Brazil. Whether the racial composition of Brazil should be commonly taught information in the US is the subject of a different Great Debate. The simple fact is that it isn’t. Sua ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/4 "2002-05-30T14:51:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Whether the racial composition of Brazil should be **commonly taught information** in the US is the subject of a different Great Debate. (my bold) Yes - but then what “should be commonly taught” is hardly the same as what the average potential world leader should commonly know… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/5 "2002-05-30T14:53:06Z")
Early in Bush’s tenure, it was good, clean fun to laugh about Bush’s mangling of the English language or to watch “That’s My Bush.” On 9/11 we were reminded that looking good isn’t what the Presidency is really about. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/6 "2002-05-30T14:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\* Yes - but then what “should be commonly taught” is hardly the same as what the average potential world leader should commonly know… \*\* OK, **Istara** , I’ll bite. Why should the President need to know the percentage of Black population in each of the Latin American countries? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/7 "2002-05-30T15:04:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Why should the President need to know the percentage of Black population in each of the Latin American countries? You would think that knowing the ethnic composition of other countries would be essential for forming intelligent policy, no? It certainly should be common knowledge that Brazil has a large quantity of blacks. I received a mediocre public education and I remember learning things like that in middle school. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/8 "2002-05-30T15:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > Now, I don’t know _Der Spiegel_ (the source of the German article) from a hole in the ground, so its credibility could be anywhere from reliable-and-honest to tabloid sensationalism. Perhaps some European Dopers can shed some light on this? My impression is that Der Spiegel is a German equivalent to **Time** or **Newsweek**. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/9 "2002-05-30T15:17:29Z")
Um, **december** et al, the question that was supposed to have been asked, wasn’t ‘what percentage’, but ‘do you have blacks?’ which, goes beyond the ‘what percentage’ etc. and frankly is bizarre. “do you have gays?” “do you have asians?” “do you have muslims?” why on earth was the question even being asked? I can’t come up w/a scenario where it’d be relevant to anything - help me out here. Another thing - I’d generally assume that most countries have **some** folks \*\* of different ethnic backgrounds, certainly a country as large as Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/10 "2002-05-30T15:17:42Z")
It would be nice if he knew enough at least to not ask questions that, with a little forethought, could be seen as ignorant. But apparently presidential image is only important to the Republican party with regards to sexual matters, not competency or intelligence. I just asked a German collegue about Der Speigel, and he said it is “THE German magazine”. His opinion is that it’s “like Newsweek or Time, but more highly regarded.” I’ll ask a few more Germans (my place of work is full of 'em, it’s a German company), his opinion of it seems too high, like he has stock in the company or something. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/11 "2002-05-30T15:21:30Z")
Does anyone else think there is _any chance_ GWB could do _anything_ to embarrass himself and the American media would _not_ report it? I have one word for you: Pretzel. ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/12 "2002-05-30T15:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Early in Bush’s tenure, it was good, clean fun to laugh about Bush’s mangling of the English language or to watch “That’s My Bush.” On 9/11 we were reminded that looking good isn’t what the Presidency is really about. \*\* In fact, next to nothing that Bush is or has done is what the Presidency is really about. JDM ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/13 "2002-05-30T15:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > But apparently presidential image is only important to the Republican party with regards to sexual matters, not competency or intelligence. Unlike the Democratic party, where you don’t have to worry about any of the three. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/14 "2002-05-30T15:40:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\*You would think that knowing the ethnic composition of other countries would be essential for forming intelligent policy, no? > \*\* [_scene:_ The Oval Office] GWB: After considering the information, I think our position in trade negotiations with Brazil should be that Brazil and the U.S. institute mutual 8% tariffs on manufactured goods traded between the two countries. Condoleeza Rice: Ahem. GWB: Something you wanted to add, Condy? CR: Sir, are you aware that there are blacks in Brazil? GWB: Really? In that case, our position should be 10% mutual tariffs. IOW, 😕 Sua ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/15 "2002-05-30T15:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\* > I just asked a German collegue about Der Speigel, and he said it is “THE German magazine”. His opinion is that it’s “like Newsweek or Time, but more highly regarded.” I’ll ask a few more Germans (my place of work is full of 'em, it’s a German company), his opinion of it seems too high, like he has stock in the company or something. \*\* No matter what kind of magazine it is, it sounds like an urban legend, and without corroboration I’d bet that’s what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/16 "2002-05-30T16:11:06Z")
I’ve asked a couple more German nationals, and they all regard Der Speigel as highly trustworthy. I agree with Rickjay, though, that the story has the odor of Urban Legend all over it. It sure wouldn’t be the first time a UL was reported as fact by reputable sources. Like the story of Quayle wanting to learn Latin to speak to Latin Americans, it could have started as a joke. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/17 "2002-05-30T16:19:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*OK, **Istara** , I’ll bite. Why should the President need to know the percentage of Black population in each of the Latin American countries? \*\* It wasn’t so much the issue at stake, but that fact that “commonly taught” is a different kettle of fish to what a president should learn about. However, in this instance, he was **meeting with the Brazilian president**. So you would think at least he would either: (a) swot up a bit beforehand (b) not expose his ignorance by asking such a question (why not query his aide instead?) Of course playing Devil’s Advocate one might argue that it’s a positive thing that Bush was humble enough to be open about his ignorance and the possibility of learning something. Then again - given the reactions on this thread and elsewhere - I am not sure I would really want my president flaunting his ignorance around the world. But then extremely happily, Bush is not my president. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/18 "2002-05-30T16:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\* > > Unlike the Democratic party, where you don’t have to worry about any of the three. :rolleyes: \*\* Yeah, thank god those incompetents Clinton and Gore are out of office, and those 8 hellish years are over. Now maybe we can have peace and prosperity in America. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/19 "2002-05-30T17:00:56Z")
If you’re gonna go to Brazil and deal with their leading politicians, it’s important to know a bit about their internal politics, right? I’m no expert on Brazil, but my limited understanding is that the racial/class divide in Brazil is pretty strong, and figures prominently into a lot of what happens in the nation. The upper classes in the country tend to be lighter-skinned than the lower classes. It’s hardly surprising that Bush wouldn’t have encountered any blacks in his visit: blacks in Brazil don’t usually hold government positions. But it doesn’t speak well of him that he doesn’t even realize the country has black folks in it. It suggests that he doesn’t know what’s going on there. Whether the anecdote is true is, of course, another question entirely. It certainly sounds plausible. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/20 "2002-05-30T17:02:41Z")
_ **If** _ the story is true, the problem is not just that GWB doesn’t know about “the racial composition of Brazilian society”. It implies that he knows virtually nothing of Brazilian history, culture and society, which in turn implies that he is not really fitted to make any useful contribution to Brazilian-US relations. One would have to wonder why he is visiting Brazil at all? Wouldn’t everybody be better off if he left it to somebody who has some interest and knowledge in the area, who could report to him? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538.md?page=2)