# Did the press corps save GWBush from total embarassment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538 "2002-05-30T14:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/181 "2002-06-05T20:55:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Cabinet meetings became fixed, regular events: nearly every Friday morning for eight years, he met with the cabinet. Ezra Taft Benson urged him to have each meeting open with a prayer. Eisenhower said a prayer was a good idea and a silent one would be best. So each meeting began with a minute of silence, except for the morning when he launched straight into discussion. His assistant charged with civil rights issues, Maxwell Rabb scribbled a short note and passed it to him. Eisenhower glanced down at the note, then looked up, slightly flustered, **"Goddammit! We forgot the silent prayer!"** Eisenhower, by Geoffrey Perret [Random House 1999] p. 437. Sua ---
**Author:** ![perspective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@perspective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perspective)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/182 "2002-06-05T21:28:01Z")
The Post article offers a quicker time scale (a March meeting between the presidents) and a reasonable way for the information to get out (Estado Sao Paulo columnist is a friend of Cardoso). This still might have been just a story from Cardoso, told for whatever reason, and whether or not it is true he may still deny having said it for obvious political reasons. My god, how could anyone watch a Bush press conference and not think that man would utter more idiocies than your average president? My high school principle was a better extemporaneous speaker. If a rabbit could talk while it stared at the headlights of a car, it would probably sound a lot like GWB. Frankly I was embarrassed the first time I listened to one of his press conferences. He’s obviously an amateur speaker. He stutters, corrects himself midsentence and makes grammatical errors. He also says “nukular”. That alone should disqualify the man for the job. It’s nuclear as in “the nucleus of an atom” not “we’re gonna nuke those russkies!” ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/183 "2002-06-05T21:47:18Z")
Finally. Thank you Washington Post for some actual freaking context. I can completely and totally see Bush saying this while discussing the two countries’ reputations as melting pots. The story finally becomes plausible. It also explains why no one else picked up on this completely [insert appropriate adjective] incident. Not a matter of the press covering for Bush, but rather, a matter of most members of the press not ever reading a Brazilian newspaper in their lives. Truly a stunning question, if it is true (and it’s looking like it is). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/184 "2002-06-07T06:40:24Z")
The original Portuguese article located at [http://www.estado.estadao.com.br/colunistas/pedreira/2002/04/pedreira020428.html](http://www.estado.estadao.com.br/colunistas/pedreira/2002/04/pedreira020428.html) can be “read” with the assistance of [Bablefish (Google version)](http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en). Here’s a snippet: > [@](#): > > The thundering ignorance > > It has more than one week, president Fernando little Enrique, mentioning itself it its North American colleague George W. Bush, made to notice that it, in substance of Latin America, was still in learning phase. E more did not say, to perhaps prevent that its words could wound norms of the diplomatics label. Bush, however, not only is in phase of learning, as it discloses, ahead of Latin American subjects, a stubborn and thundering inapetência. > > In one of the recent meeting between the two presidents, as if it said of racial questions and measures to contain the preconception, not only in the United States, but also in Brazil, Bush was admired: “Of it blacks you have, also” > > (“Vocês has black color, also”) Ahead of the enormity of the doubt, FHC was for a few seconds perplexo, but, before she could answer, the secretary of National Security, Condoleezza Rice, intervined: perhaps "President, Brazil… etc. etc. The article ends on a forlorn note: > [@](#): > > Latin America simply is not in the map (it has even so led, to the times, the leftovers), what it ahead explains the blow and “desgolpe” of Caracas and the bushiano indifference of the drama of Argentina… It remains us the consolation of that, to little in old France, we had some influence, still that small, thanks to the participation of the Squid (and its assessor Luis Favre, husband of Marta Suplicy) in the assemblies of Jospin. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/185 "2002-06-07T13:30:23Z")
“Of it blacks you have, also” Maybe W was just doing a Yoda imitation? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/186 "2002-06-07T16:08:23Z")
**Xenophon** , I’d say you were perfectly correct regarding David Gregory’s opinions: From yahoo news [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020603/79/1n0a8.html](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020603/79/1n0a8.html) > [@](#): > > It turned out that what set him off was Gregory’s turning to the French leader. Later Bush told Chirac: “I’ll call on the Americans.” > > What Gregory said later was: “Well, that’s it for my career.” It wouldn’t surprise me if DG’s later comment was for political salvage purposes. What was he supposed to say? “Me and the Prez had beef, and wait till the next press conference?” Feh. And by the way, if this Brazil stuff is true, it’ll be the stupidest perfomance by a President since one choked on a preztel. Oh, wait! That’s the same guy! Bush is like Kenya – he takes the Gold, Silver, & Bronze for asininity! ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/187 "2002-06-07T16:36:25Z")
Hmmm. Well, as a vegetarian I’m precluded from eating crow, but I may need to help myself to a nice portion of Crowfu[sup]TM[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/188 "2002-06-07T17:42:37Z")
Fresh crow! Get yer fresh crow here! > [@](#): > > _originally by PLD_ > This is going to turn out to be bullshit just like the “Bush waving at Stevie Wonder” thing was. Just you wait and see. Hell, Maureen Dowd would be falling all over herself to write about this if it was true. So would about a hundred other pundits in the U.S. And yet, this incident is strangely absent from our pages. Not to harp on PLD, since he was good enough to preempt this – but should we take another look at the Stevie Wonder incident, then? > [@](#): > > _originally by SUA_ > rjung, it’s crap like this that gives Bush-bashing a bad name. I have a brother who’s a professor at MIT who probably doesn’t know there are blacks in Brazil. I’ve had friends who are doctors and MBA candidates who literally couldn’t find Vietnam on a map. The Brazil part was withdrawn – perhaps we can do the same for “it’s crap like this”? > [@](#): > > _originally by Sam Stone_ > Anyway, back to the OP. If Bush really didn’t know something like the general demographic of the country he was in, it wouldn’t just be a failure of his intellect - it would be a failure of his state department, because he is supposed to get briefings that cover material like this. I guarantee you that when he was on the plane heading there, his advisors were briefing him on these details. > > Urban legend. I’d bet on it. [Alex Voice]No, I’m sorry. The correct answer was true. And how much credibility did you wager, Sam?[/Alex] ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/189 "2002-06-07T18:06:55Z")
Bite me, **Ace,** The Brazilian article contains precisely the same elements that led to the suspicion that the **der Spiegel** article was an UL. As Snopes says - **after** the discovery of the _Estado Sao Paolo_ article: > [@](#): > > Considering that this news wasn’t reported until five to thirteen months after the event, we have to wonder whether the person reporting it was actually present for the occasion. (Indeed, the literal English text of Bush’s question as printed in Estado de Sao Paulo – “Do you have blacks, also?” – bears the marks of non-English speakers who typically write ‘also’ where English speakers more commonly use ‘too.’) As it turns out, the Estado de Sao Paulo article was authored by Fernando Pedreira, and as the Washington Post noted > > [snip] > > Pedreira is very close to Cardoso, who had named him the country’s ambassador to UNESCO. Meanwhile, Cardoso is said to have mentioned his chats with Bush while he was on a weekend with some close friends recently in Rio. > > This items sounds like, at best, a second-hand account recounted months after the fact, one which to many seems a little too perfectly ironic in that, of all the people present at the meeting, it has Condoleezza Rice intervening and fixing up Bush’s embarrassing inquiry (a black woman with superior knowledge coming to the aid of a “racist” white man in trouble). It’s also more than a bit reminiscent of a joke told about Vice-President Dan Quayle in 1989: that Quayle said, “I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn’t study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people.” (The essence of the joke was soon put into Quayle’s mouth when it quickly mutated into a claim that he actually had said those words, and the joke has been widely cited as a “real” quote ever since). Nothing has changed, except now we know where _der Spiegel_ got its story. Sua ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/190 "2002-06-07T20:17:47Z")
Sorry, **Ace** , I don’t find that your Gregory quote refutes his comment to Don Imus that he appreciated the humor in the situation (not necessarily a compliment to Bush, mind you). --Nor do I find that the _Estado Sao Paolo_ article adds any confirmation for the alleged comment from Bush. So… Phil, no need to chow down on the Crowfu yet. Unless you just like the flavor. I find you develop a taste for real, genuine crow after a while, so maybe the bean curd substitute is the same… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/191 "2002-06-07T21:54:02Z")
It doesn’t refute Gregory’s quote – I’d say it adds context to them. I’m sure we’ve all laughed at our boss’ lousy jokes. I have a feeling Mr. Gregory is rather wry… As for the credibility of “Do you have blacks, too?” the source just went from a German gossip column to a Brazilian reporter with possible connections to the Brazilian government. I’d say that’s a net plus for the credibility, no? And, certainly several levels above complete crap. -Ace ---
**Author:** ![Sublime54465](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sublime54465](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublime54465)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/192 "2002-06-07T23:10:55Z")
just a few replies: “Equally terrifying: the American media did not report the incident. There seems to be an unwritten rule that while it’s ok to acknowledge Bush’s lack of “intellectual curiosity”, any hard evidence of utter stupidity must be covered up.” “Intelectual Curiousity” now, i could be wrong, but i’ve always considered “curiousity” as a strong desire to learn new things. Unless im on crack and this is the incorrect definition, then wouldnt the driving force behind asking this question be, by definition, CURIOUSITY? im suprised no one else has pointed it out either. “My impression is that Der Spiegel is a German equivalent to Time or Newsweek.” Good impression. Der Speigel is the German equivelant of Time of Newsweek, except better. it is THE German magazine: weekly, like Time and Newsweek, but with another 50-60 or so pages…quality pages, too…in short, this magazine is reliable. But i also agree that its probably an Urban Legend. Heres why: if it was only seen by WHPC, then who the hell could report it? Becasue if it was WHITE HOUSE press corps, they sure as hell wouldnt go and report it to Germany! “I don’t know much about Der Spiegel either but when you open an article with a statement like “It is said, that, before September 11, George W. Bush thought the Taliban were a Bavarian brass band” I question your journalistic integrity.” Some key words: IT IS SAID. Thats a pretty common journalistic thing: to quote popular opinion. And while ive never heard that particular thing over here in the states, Germany is totally different. One last thing: “It certainly should be common knowledge that Brazil has a large quantity of blacks. I received a mediocre public education and I remember learning things like that in middle school.” Im at Phillips Andover now, and i dont think i EVER heard that before in my life. -j ---
**Author:** ![Sublime54465](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sublime54465](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublime54465)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/193 "2002-06-07T23:19:00Z")
one more: did it occur to anyone that maybe, and keep in mind this is only speculation, the two were speaking a different language? i mean, maybe bush asked “is the percentage of black people in your country as high as in ours?” and the translator said “do you have blacks too?” (but in portugese…). now keep in mind, were this the case, then the WHPC wouldnt think it too strange…but the portugese press corps would they could report to europe, and that would get it to der Spiegel. -j ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/194 "2002-06-08T02:50:32Z")
What does der Spiegel mean anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/195 "2002-06-08T03:05:02Z")
Der Spiegel = “The Mirror” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/196 "2002-06-08T03:11:38Z")
**Sublime** : It’s a faux pas to ask a head of state questions about his country that one could learn from an Almanac or other standard reference. For balance, I’ll note that a story circulated about one of Jimmy Carter’s Georgia cronies making a pass the wife of a Latin American Head of State / Diplomat. If true, it shows the disadvantages of electing a President without extensive Washington connections. Just as this story (if true) demonstrates the disadvantages of electing a President who is unseasoned in foreign affairs. Experienced advisors (in foreign policy, not economics, IMHO) are certainly a plus, though they can only take you so far. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/197 "2002-06-08T03:20:10Z")
Arg again. Experienced advisors are always a plus. I was trying to allude to the fact that Rice et al appear to have a better reputation than Paul O’Neill, etc. do. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/198 "2002-06-10T03:03:34Z")
A bit of a hijack, but I just wonder how the following managed to slip into what looks to be a prepared speech: [http://www.hypocrites.com/article.php?sid=3486](http://www.hypocrites.com/article.php?sid=3486) Now, in a case like this, Bush will catch flack, though, one should hold the speechwriters just as responsible, if not more. After all, it’s a nitpick point, and presidents are probably more concerned with the general message they portray rather than the specifics. That’s why they hire speechwriters. Obviously some writer wasn’t up to date on his 20th century history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538.md?page=9)