# Did the press corps save GWBush from total embarassment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538 "2002-05-30T14:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/121 "2002-05-31T23:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > ## Gregory asked, “M. le Pre’sident, pourriez-vous ajouter vos sentiments de cette question?” The French verb “ajouter” (to add) takes the preposition “a’” not “de.” To the non-French speaker this may seem a small error. But, I assure you that it is, in fact, a huge error and one that no native speaker or student of French could possibly make. Seems to me that if you’re a journalist bent on showing up our president in another language in another country, you ought to do your homework. Please, let’s tell the English-speaking public the truth about the “Gregory Gaffe.” The French already know! > > Is it true that David Gregory’s statement included a “huge error”? **Assuming he actually said that** , it’s true. It’s easy to understand what he meant, but nevertheless the “de” will appear as obvioulsy uncorrect to any french speaker (like “at any french speaker”, for instance). Beside, there’s a second error : one wouldn’t "ajouter ses sentiments (“add his feelings”). He would “ajouter ses commentaires” (“add his comments”) or "partager ses sentiments (“share his feelings”), for instance. So, this sentence is definitely not correct, though it would be very elaborate, had it been correct. He tried to hard, IMO, to emulate the usual wording of french journalists. It doesn’t necessarily means he doesn’t speak french. Rather that he’s not fluent and doesn’t speak it better than I speak english. However, I still think that Bush was a jerk, in this instance. I strongly doubt he knew better. And I can’t see any reason why he should react this way because a journalist tried to ask a question in french. It sounds like someone irritated because someone else is educated and tries to be polite. Well…_perhaps_ the guy was actually trying to show off his skills. But I see no reason to assume that, and as a major political figure, Bush should have avoided to react like an irritated 6 y.o. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/122 "2002-05-31T23:50:22Z")
**wring** I addressed your quesiton in post #2458 at 5:25 pm ---
**Author:** ![perspective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@perspective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perspective)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/123 "2002-05-31T23:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hinten \* > \*\*When more than one source quotes GWB does that make it true? > Slate picked it up… > > [http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066349](http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066349) \*\* ahem… speaking of GWB alleged gaffe, this little snippet is interesting because it provides a date and place (Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001). Something that Snopes seems to find dubious about the story to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/124 "2002-05-31T23:57:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*However, I still think that Bush was a jerk, in this instance. I strongly doubt he knew better. And I can’t see any reason why he should react this way because a journalist tried to ask a question in french. It sounds like someone irritated because someone else is educated and tries to be polite. Well…_perhaps_ the guy was actually trying to show off his skills. But I see no reason to assume that, and as a major political figure, Bush should have avoided to react like an irritated 6 y.o. Thanks for the information. I agree that Bush reacted like a 6 year old. As I said earlier, I think Gregory’s question annoyed Bush and Gregory showing off his French added to Bush’s annoyance, but that doesn’t justify his childish response. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/125 "2002-06-01T00:09:43Z")
Since we’re in a charitable mood, I’ll admit David Gregory has had his spats with others – Karen “Cruella” Hughes, for one. Hey, he knocks heads, but he gets the story straight. My kind of reporter. I’m glad that we’ve all agreed that Bush looked the peevish dolt in France. Heck, I’m glad he didn’t haul off and call him a major league asshole, or something juvenile like that. -Ace ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/126 "2002-06-01T00:10:55Z")
What I want to know is, why in the Hell didn’t Clinton simply take the 5th Ammendment? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/127 "2002-06-01T00:16:55Z")
How could he have taken the Fifth? It is invoked in order to prevent a person from incriminating himself. Are you suggesting that, had Clinton admitted in his deposition to his sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, he would have been admitting to a crime? If not, the Fifth Amendment is not an option–you can’t just whip that out when you don’t want to answer a question. If you’re asking why he didn’t take it when asked, “Did you lie in the Jones deposition?” I don’t have an answer for that. Maybe he thought he could get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/128 "2002-06-01T00:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by perspective \* > \*\*ahem… speaking of GWB alleged gaffe, this little snippet is interesting because it provides a date and place (Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001). Something that Snopes seems to find dubious about the story to begin with. \*\* As much as I am trying to stay out of this, I’m still not convinced it’s accurate an accurate quote. Quite frankly, a quick google search will find that the last time Cardoso and Bush met was on November 8, 2001 and in Washington, so it’s pretty easy to guess when the remark could have been made. I want to know how Slate came up with the date and place (besides a quick google search), since the German magazine didn’t provide one. In short…what is the source? How are they coming by this info, other than guessing? The fact that apparently _Der Spiegel_ broke the story in its gossip column doesn’t bode well, either. However, given the monumental hijack that has occurred, can I assume that everyone agrees it is probably a UL given the absence of background information? ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/129 "2002-06-01T03:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > Oh, I have. Quite a while ago, though. I found very little to surprise me: “It depends what you mean by ‘sex;’ it depends what you mean by ‘is.’” Please. He sounds like what he was: Ten pounds of lying shit in a five pound bag. Couple that with his admission that he intended to mislead, and I really see no leg for him to stand on, either as a lawyer or as a person. Well since none of those statements are in the transcript of the Jones Deposition, You either havn’t really read it. Or you did after you had already made up your mind what you would think about it. Try reading it again, not the television coverage, but the actual transcript. It’s far more interesting the questions that _werent_ asked than that were. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/130 "2002-06-01T03:34:43Z")
[qupte]Well since none of those statements are in the transcript of the Jones Deposition, You either havn’t really read it. Or you did after you had already made up your mind what you would think about it. [/quote] Or I read it years ago and didn’t commit it to heart. > [@](#): > > Try reading it again, not the television coverage, but the actual transcript. Nah. I mean, life is short. I don’t read transcripts twice unless I’m going to cross examine someone on them. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/131 "2002-06-01T03:37:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > \*\ ***december** , what percentage of American reporters’ questions are grammatically correct _in English_ do you suppose? And what, do you think, are the chances that _Bush_ noticed the grammatical error? (Hint: he don’t _ **speaka** _ the French.) And what in blue blazes difference does the error make in this context? Do you think it proves “grandstanding” on Gregory’s part? Could it be that his conversational French is what you might expect from someone speaking a second language in another country? > > All this effort to justify a nasty little attack on a reporter by a nasty little President? \*\* Apparently xenophon41, you don’t speaka English yourself. Slee ---
**Author:** ![perspective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@perspective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perspective)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/132 "2002-06-01T05:08:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > Quite frankly, a quick google search will find that the last time Cardoso and Bush met was on November 8, 2001 and in Washington, so it’s pretty easy to guess when the remark could have been made. > … > The fact that apparently _Der Spiegel_ broke the story in its gossip column doesn’t bode well, either. Well, if you say you want a date for credibility, and then when you get a date, you say the date doesn’t add credibility(even though that date apparently lines up with your own research): I’m not sure what you’re looking for. And actually, Der Speigel didn’t break the story, according to snopes O Estado de S. Paulo ran the story about three weeks before Der Spiegel. Those points made, I also would like to know Slate’s source on this. I haven’t passed judgement on the quote yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/133 "2002-06-01T05:22:57Z")
Oh and one last thing **Jodi**. In response to this: > [@](#): > > **you said** > And frankly, I think you will find that if you attempt to defend that which is IMO pretty obviously indefensible, you will find yourself having much less credibility when you try to defend some action of his that’s actually worth your time to defend. You mistake my point completely. I’m not defending the man, I’m doing what we are all supposed to be doing here in GD. defending _accuracy._ Use of the term _perjury_ to describe Clinton’s testimony is simply incorrect. If intent to deceive were the measure of perjury then both John Ashcroft and Clarence Thomas would be behind bars for giving misleading testimony before Congress during their confirmation hearings. They (unlike the President, who is in a political office) are _directly_ connected to the administration of justice in this country. One of them, in fact, is partly responsible for the fact that Clinton was forced to give that deposition while president in the first place. Is Clinton a liar? sure. But so is everyone else (except Carter?) who has held that office since at least Kennedy. It’s pointless to use a willingness to lie as the measure of a politician. There are just too few honest ones out there, and apparently honestly disqualifies one from becoming president entirely. Oh, and whether or not I have any credibility in this forum is irrelevant. My points are either backed up by the facts or they are not. Even the most trusted person here isn’t allowed to get a way with relying on their credibility instead of facts. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/134 "2002-06-01T05:27:21Z")
Well, I wasn’t really looking for a date for credibility. I’d like a source for credibility. I didn’t know about the Brasilian periodical breaking the source, though…that makes the story a bit more plausible since I could see a member of the Brasilian team leaking the story to a Brasilian news organization. My main problem is I don’t believe half the quotes attributed to a supposedly stupid person ever since I flipped through the Bush Dyslexicon and found that it was attributing quotes to him that had previously been attributed to Quayle or Marion Barry (like the Social Security being a federal program quote and the it isn’t pollution harming our water it’s the impurities, etc.). Not that I am saying Bush doesn’t screw up a LOT and make ridiculous and sometimes painful comments… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/135 "2002-06-01T12:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \*If intent to deceive were the measure of perjury then both John Ashcroft and Clarence Thomas would be behind bars for giving misleading testimony before Congress during their confirmation hearings. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/136 "2002-06-01T16:44:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\ ***wring** I addressed your quesiton in post #2458 at 5:25 pm \*\* No, you made further assertions. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/137 "2002-06-01T17:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **sleestak** :_ > Apparently xenophon41, you don’t speaka English yourself. > > Slee Um… ouch? (Really, Slee, can’t you try a little harder than that? Got any criticisms that actually make sense? Or actually hurt?) Freakin’ amateur. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/138 "2002-06-01T20:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Tejota_ > > If intent to deceive were the measure of perjury then both John Ashcroft and Clarence Thomas would be behind bars for giving misleading testimony before Congress during their confirmation hearings. > > Cite? Regarding Ashcroft, I believe **Tejota** is referring to his confirmation hearing where he promised to enforce all the laws on the books, whether or not he agreed with them (there was some concern at the time that Ashcroft wouldn’t rigorously enforce laws protecting abortion rights, for instance). Needless to say, since Ashcroft has been in office, there have been various claims raised that the Justice Department has been ignoring (or not being very vigorous, at least) violations of laws that don’t jive with Ashcroft’s personal views. For instance, Senator Charles Schumer claims that under Ashcroft’s leadership, violations of environmental laws have been only getting tepid responses from the DoJ (there used to be a cite link [here,](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usenvi0501.story?coll=ny%2Dhomepage%2Dmore%2Dbreaking%2Dnews) but it’s expired now). As for Thomas, some legal experts (including Vincent Bugliosi and Alan Dershowiz) have argued that the majority decision in _Bush v. Gore_ shows that Justices Scalia, Rehnquist, Thomas, O’Connor, and Kennedy have violated their oath of office, where admitting justices must swear to perform their duties without any bias or personal predispositions. Derschowitz’s _Supreme Injustice_ devotes several pages arguing this point, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/139 "2002-06-01T21:02:56Z")
**Question for Sua** You seem to recall the details of Clinton’s testimony better than I do. I thought that the question of whether he commited perjury amounted to whether he touched certain places (as opposed to being touched in certain places.) Given the odd definition of sex provided in the court. So, where, exactly, did Clinton “lie” in the courtroom? Or are you just claiming that he willfully misled the court? I recognize that you have drawn a distinction between “lie” and “perjury”. It is also plausible (to this nonlawyer) that Clinton’s evasions may have amounted to contempt of court. I would guess that they did, but my opinion is wholly ungrounded on this point. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538/140 "2002-06-01T21:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flowbark \* > \*\*So, where, exactly, did Clinton “lie” in the courtroom? Or are you just claiming that he willfully misled the court? \*\* This question is thoroughly analyzed in Judge Richard Posner’s book _Affair of State._ Here’s a review: [http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/history/faculty/TROYWEB/JudgePosnerFindsClintonandtheRestofUsGuilty.htm](http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/history/faculty/TROYWEB/JudgePosnerFindsClintonandtheRestofUsGuilty.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-press-corps-save-gwbush-from-total-embarassment/111538.md?page=8)