# Did the pubbies break the law at the RNC? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067 "2004-09-04T02:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/1 "2004-09-04T02:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Sec. 713. Use of likenesses of the great seal of the United > States, the seals of the President and Vice President, the seal > of the United States Senate, the seal of the United States House > of Representatives, and the seal of the United States Congress > > ``` > (a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of the > > ``` > > great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the President or the > Vice President of the United States, or the seal of the United States > Senate, or the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or > the seal of the United States Congress, or any facsimile thereof, in, or > in connection with, any advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, > or other publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or > other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for the > purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a > false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the > United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, > shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, > or both. > **[govinfo](https://www.govinfo.gov/app/browse/category)** > > Official Publications from the U.S. Government Publishing Office. Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/2 "2004-09-04T02:42:29Z")
I dunno. You going to make a citizens arrest? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/3 "2004-09-04T02:46:37Z")
Oh jeez, **Reeder** , use just a _little_ common sense, will you? The presidential seal travels with the President. On ESPN2 right now, Foreman has Ali on the ropes. You may think you’re Ali, but you’re really Foreman. PLEASE, adjust your reality meter. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/4 "2004-09-04T02:46:43Z")
Probably not. Notice, from the statute you quoted, the requirement of intent: > [@](#): > > …for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the > United States… Strangely enough, the Republican Party is in the process of nominating the incumbent President of the United States, as chosen by the Electoral College (with a small assist from the Supreme Court, of course), to run for a second term. He is entitled to use the seal in connection with his official duties. Do they claim to be sponsored or approved by the Government in a way the Democratic Party is not? I think not – for many of them, their opinion of themselves is often jingoistically exclusivist as regards patriotism, but they certainly are not claiming any official status beyond that which they undoubtedly enjoy – that the incumbent President and Vice President, and majorities in both houses of Congress, are members of their party. Did you see something in particular that struck you as a definite misuse of the Great Seal? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/5 "2004-09-04T03:07:12Z")
[Was it a crime when Clinton did it in 1996?](http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/pubpaps/1996portv2.html) Just asking. I answered this to my satisfaction in about five minutes of web research. Why **Reeder** couldn’t have done the same is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/6 "2004-09-04T03:26:30Z")
Was it a crime when Clinton did it in 1996? Yes ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/7 "2004-09-04T03:30:50Z")
I’m disappointed. I’ve come to expect better from you, **Reeder**. Surely, that is a sign of mental illness that I should have looked at… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/8 "2004-09-04T03:32:25Z")
I apologize for that. God as my witness, I thought we were in the pit. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/9 "2004-09-04T03:35:33Z")
No, **Reeder** , it wasn’t. And I’ll tell you why. The White House has an office that handles protocol. It is staffed by civil servants that carry over from administration to administration. They’re not beholden to individual presidents. And their job is to advise on the appropriate use of symbols like this. Maybe you’d like to criticize Bush now for sending greetings to my twins, to honor their birth, signed by him and Laura? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/10 "2004-09-04T03:35:43Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I apologize for that. God as my witness, I thought we were in the pit. > > Mea culpa. To be honest…I thought I was in the pit when I posted it. As to the OP…I was just asking. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/11 "2004-09-04T03:48:20Z")
I hope it has been answered to your satisfaction. Remember…your disgust at seeing the seal there is not a measure of its appropriateness. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/12 "2004-09-04T03:50:09Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > To be honest…I thought I was in the pit when I posted it. If 'twas in the Pit, do you honestly believe you would have been getting the restrained and polite answers you’ve been getting here? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/13 "2004-09-04T03:51:29Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I hope it has been answered to your satisfaction. > > Remember…your disgust at seeing the seal there is not a measure of its appropriateness. What disgust? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/14 "2004-09-04T03:57:04Z")
Forgive me if I was wrong. I was guessing as to your emotional state. I’m betting I was close though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/15 "2004-09-05T17:52:06Z")
Perhaps we should invite two Guest Dopers debate the issue, Michael Moore and Bill O’Reilly. Ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-pubbies-break-the-law-at-the-rnc/263067/16 "2004-09-06T02:56:20Z")
Heard today on NPR that all sorts of Bush Admin bureacratic actions to the detriment of the Republic are to be found in the output of the Federal Register, and are poorly covered by the news media. If **Reeder** were to peruse this publication, he could no doubt find loads of stuff to discuss that would be more fruitful than obsessions about the proper use of the great seal of the United States. There’s only so much anti-Bush mania one can balance on one’s nose before the crowd tires of it and goes elsewhere.