# Did the Romans really train apes to rape women? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071 "2009-02-02T03:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/1 "2009-02-02T03:07:14Z")
Did the ancient Romans really train apes to rape human women or was that something HBO made up for Rome? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/2 "2009-02-02T04:49:04Z")
I’ve never heard of this in any history I’ve read. I did read something similar once but it was in a historical novel - and it was Egyptians not Romans. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/3 "2009-02-02T05:31:38Z")
How many women would they have to go through before the training finally took effect? (And when I say go through, I mean go through. :eek:) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/4 "2009-02-02T05:35:54Z")
Wait, was there a reference to ape rape on HBO’s Rome? I don’t remember that. It’s been a while, though. What happened? ---
**Author:** ![Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9adbd/32.png) [@Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fell_through_the_Ice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/5 "2009-02-02T05:59:08Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Did the ancient Romans really train apes to rape human women or was that something HBO made up for Rome? For what reason would they have allegedly done this? ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/6 "2009-02-02T06:06:36Z")
in all the history I’ve taken and all the books i’ve read I’ve never heard any mention of this. As **Fell through the ice** said, why would they do this? To be more specific, the men of their armies did enough raping, I don’t think training animals to do the same would be necessary ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/7 "2009-02-02T07:30:43Z")
I’m surprised nobody else has heard of this. I had, and did a [Google search for lions raping women rome](http://www.google.com/search?q=lions+raping+women+rome&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a), or some such word string, and found a few references. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/8 "2009-02-02T07:36:43Z")
I don’t recall specifically reading accounts of Roman Ape Rape. **However:** In the only extant Roman novel (The \*Metamorphoses \*by Apuleius), a donkey is trained for this purpose. It’s doubtful IMO that this was actually done, however, since the book is heavilly fantastical. The Romans were fans of making spectacles of horrific punishments, but in general they let Roman women maintain modesty, even as criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/9 "2009-02-02T08:00:22Z")
> [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](#): > > I don’t recall specifically reading accounts of Roman Ape Rape. You mean you didn’t know that’s where the word comes from? Roman Ape - just look at it. I’ve been Roman Aped. You’ve been R-aped? It’s perfectly obvious! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/10 "2009-02-02T08:13:43Z")
“Get your stinking paws off me you damn…” oh, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/11 "2009-02-02T08:18:44Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Wait, was there a reference to ape rape on HBO’s Rome? I don’t remember that. It’s been a while, though. What happened? Brutus and Cassius are out in the sticks trying to bargain with some Pontic potentate to gain financial backing for their army. The bejewelled potentate practically twirls his moustache as he inquires, “I hear there is a performance where Roman women have intercourse with baboons. I would like to see that!” Cassius clears his throat as he tries to get the conversation back on track: “Um, actually, it’s more of a punishment . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/12 "2009-02-02T08:21:05Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > You mean you didn’t know that’s where the word comes from? Roman Ape - just look at it. I’ve been Roman Aped. You’ve been R-aped? > > It’s perfectly obvious! 😉 [Rape Ape! Rape Ape!](http://www.animationalley.com/images/animationart/hannabarbera/grapeape.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/13 "2009-02-02T09:20:40Z")
During Pinochet’s rule in Chile it was reported they used dogs trained to rape women. If you can train dogs to do it I’m sure you can train apes. > [@](#): > > [Project MUSE](http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/radical_history_review/v079/79.1meade.html) > > One of the guards was a female carabinero (policeman) named Ingrid Olderock who was a dog trainer for the police. She used her particular talents to train a German shepherd dog to rape women. The police called the dog “Bellodilla,” which was the name of the head of the Chilean Communist Party. Olderock is alive and lives in Nunoa (a section of Santiago), where she is retired on a comfortable pension. That was the regime the U.S.A supported in their coup against democratically-elected president Salvador Allende. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/14 "2009-02-02T09:35:40Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > in all the history I’ve taken and all the books i’ve read I’ve never heard any mention of this. > > As **Fell through the ice** said, why would they do this? To be more specific, the men of their armies did enough raping, I don’t think training animals to do the same would be necessary Well, the men of the armies did plenty of killing, too, but they [still also trained animals to do it](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2841/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions) as punishment (for the recipient, not the animal) and spectacle. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/15 "2009-02-02T12:41:02Z")
Probably not apes, as generally they do not have large penises. > [@](#): > > Man is the ape, the monkey and the primate with the biggest penis! > > Gorilla males, which dwarf humans in size, have minute penises compared to ours, no thicker and longer than a pencil. Other apes do not reach even this size. > > In some African countries, saying that one is ‘hung like a gorilla’ is considered an insult. http:/ /news.softpedia.com/news/ The-Largest-Penis-in-the-World-43756.shtml ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/16 "2009-02-02T14:31:48Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > You mean you didn’t know that’s where the word comes from? Roman Ape - just look at it. I’ve been Roman Aped. You’ve been R-aped? > > It’s perfectly obvious! 😉 This post has been Times New Romaned by the Timed New Romaner! ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/17 "2009-02-02T15:58:44Z")
The only institutionalized bestiality that I’m aware of was that they supposedly executed a woman by putting her in a contraption to enact the myth of Pasiphae and the bull. The Romans were strange and brutal, but I’ve never heard anything about apes. (It’s days like today, when I realize I know far too much about ancient bestiality, that I start to question my life choices.) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/18 "2009-02-02T16:21:27Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That was the regime the U.S.A supported in their coup against democratically-elected president Salvador Allende. Which has what to do with the OP’s question? I read a book about Roman gladiators and other spectacles a few years ago. I can’t remember the title. I do remember thinking, while I was reading it, that the author was just making shit up. He claimed the Roman entertainments included: 1. Women being raped by apes. 2. Women being raped by donkeys. 3. Women being raped by big cats. (a recurring theme in these rapes was that the women were singers, dancers, or other entertainers set upon in the middle of a performance.) 4. A ship full of musicians and singers being deliberately sunk, drowning all the entertainers in the process. 5. Entertainers being killed by armed men in the middle of a performance. 6. Gladiators killing animals. 7. Gladiators killing each other. The gladiators fighting animals and each other is true enough. The rest of it sounded suspiciously like a product of the author’s diseased mind. How on Urth would they have been able to convince anybody to perform at the Colluseum after the first group of entertainers met some grotesque fate? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/19 "2009-02-02T16:42:58Z")
Apparently a boatload of performers drowned in a freak storm during Domitian’s reign, but the rest sounds pretty unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/20 "2009-02-03T00:27:40Z")
Well, over on wikipedia, they repeat this old story, that I’d read in college. And they at least have a reference. But how likely this all is, I don’t know. Getting baboons drunk, collecting their females’ urine, tossing it on virgins – seems like a lot of work. If they went to that much trouble, it shouldn’t be a one off anecdote, but documented often. 😕 > **[History of zoophilia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_and_cultural_perspectives_on_zoophilia#Roman_Games_and_Circus)** > > The history of zoophilia and bestiality begins in the prehistoric era, where depictions of humans and animals in a sexual context appear infrequently in European rock art. Bestiality remained a theme in mythology and folklore through the classical period and into the Middle Ages (e.g. the Greek myth of Leda and the Swan) and several ancient authors purported to document it as a regular, accepted practice—albeit usually in "other" cultures. > Explicit legal prohibition of human sexual contact wi... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071.md?page=2)