# Did the Romans really train apes to rape women? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071 "2009-02-02T03:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/41 "2009-02-04T00:33:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m not sure how to respond to this. The word “monkey” means old or new world monkey, and explicitly excludes apes. Look in any dictionary you like. > The relationship between monkeys and other superfamilies is of no relevance. > > You might just as well say that we should think of the sun as a planet, since planets like Jupiter are more similar to the sun than they are to planets like Mercury. It’s an irrelevance because the sun does not meet the definition of a planet. > > The latter part of your post was obviously not addressed at me. The thing is, if there is a natural category such as “monkey” it has to include apes and humans. Simple cladistics. Sure, you can arbitrarily exclude some lineages from your definition, but those exclusions are purely arbitrary. It would be like declaring that while lynxes and cheetahs and jaguars and cougars and servals are cats, lions and tigers aren’t. Sure, you can define the category of “cat” and exclude lions and tigers, but it wouldn’t make any sense. Similarly, any definition of “monkey” that includes both baboons and howler monkeys has to also include chimps and humans or it doesn’t make any sense, because a baboon is more closely related to a human than it is to any new world monkey. The “apes aren’t monkeys” meme is wrongheaded. Apes are a particular kind of monkey, just like humans are a particular kind of ape. Humans are apes, apes are monkeys, monkeys are primates. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/42 "2009-02-04T00:40:43Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > 1- I have no idea what you mean when you say dogs don’t do it “doggy style”. All dogs I have seen did it that way. You need to explain how you think dogs do it. > > 2- I have seen videos of large dogs fucking women “doggy style” (there’s this thing called the “internet”; I’ll tell you about it another day) and they did not seem to have much trouble. I mean, not as fast as your average college male who is in and out in a matter of a couple of minutes but they did not seem to have much more difficulty with a human than with a bitch. In fact, a female human on all fours cannot run away like a dog can. > > 3- You force a woman to remain on all fours, either by immobilizing her or by threats and a German Shepherd will fuck her in a matter of minutes without any problem. > > 4- There have been many reports of this being done in Argentina and Chile during the dictatorships. It is not new. It was reported at the time and has been confirmed later. Both perpetrators and victims have been named. > > 5- The cite I gave mentions the name of the place and persons who did it and mentions they have not been prosecuted, like many other known torturers. It is not without details which can be checked. Those details have been reported and confirmed by plenty of news organizations and reporters over the years. Search for “venda sexy” and for “Ingrid Olderock” and you will find plenty of cites. > > I think there is plenty of evidence to convince me that it happened. It may be hard to believe there are people like this in the world but historical evidence shows it takes very little for persons to become monsters. A little authority and the knowledge they can get away with it turns your average person into a monster. It happened in Germany, it happened in Japan, it happened in Vietnam, it happened in Abu Ghraib, it happened in Guantanamo. People will torture for fun. It’s depressing but it’s a fact. > > The Chilean and Argentine dictatorships committed all sorts of untold horrors and you can easily find plenty of information online. Why would they fly airplanes out over the ocean and dump people into the ocean to their deaths when they could just as well kill them and bury them? I suppose they just wanted to experience what it is like to push someone out of an airplane to their death, or see how a man reacts when his testicles are electrocuted, or a woman raped by a dog. Sadly that is part of humanity. We want to think we are not like that but wars and history prove otherwise. > > I have no difficulty believing the reports of the Chilean Junta. Which has fuck-all to do with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/43 "2009-02-04T00:57:33Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > 1- I have no idea what you mean when you say dogs don’t do it “doggy style”. All dogs I have seen did it that way. You need to explain how you think dogs do it. > > 2- I have seen videos of large dogs fucking women “doggy style” (there’s this thing called the “internet”; I’ll tell you about it another day) and they did not seem to have much trouble. I mean, not as fast as your average college male who is in and out in a matter of a couple of minutes but they did not seem to have much more difficulty with a human than with a bitch. In fact, a female human on all fours cannot run away like a dog can. > > 3- You force a woman to remain on all fours, either by immobilizing her or by threats and a German Shepherd will fuck her in a matter of minutes without any problem.\ Maybe he meant humans don’t naturally do it doggie style? Any time I’ve done it doggie style it’s fallen out at least once before going in all the way. And sometimes I get freaked out it’ll go in the wrong hole…how are these dogs just managing to get it into the right hole just like that? With a lack of opposable thumbs no less, and a person struggling? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/44 "2009-02-04T01:01:37Z")
Re. the nomenclature debate about monkeys: even if anatomically, genetically and cladistically there is no such thing as a single group that can exclusively be labelled “monkeys”, I have no trouble with it’s colloquial use to mean “a comparatively small, quadrapedal, arboreal primate”. Heck, I have no quarrel with the term “pachyderm” to mean big hairless African mammals like elephants, rhinos and hippos, even though they are unrelated below the subclass Placentia\*. \*or whatever the heck the clade equivalent is these days. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/45 "2009-02-04T01:03:26Z")
Some dogs have penises that stick almost straight back when erect, and they mate rump to rump ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/46 "2009-02-04T01:04:23Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Any dictionary?[In a biology context, monkey can include apes. The link given includes references from 8 dictionaries, all but one of them explicitly exclude apes, and the one that does starts with “In the most general sense…”. So…you scrolled through that page, trying to find a favorable definition, and when you eventually found one, you throw it out there like you’re correcting me. Rather disingenuous. > [@sailor](#): > > 1- I have no idea what you mean when you say dogs don’t do it “doggy style”. All dogs I have seen did it that way. You need to explain how you think dogs do it. First of all, the tone of your whole post seems to me quite defensive. I was not suggesting that you were a liar or otherwise, just that I had difficulty believing the details of the article that you linked. Not that you’d done anything wrong. In response to your point, I’ve never seen dogs at it, but I believe that the male is locked in place by his penis, which swells up within the female, and then the male swings a leg over so they’re back to back. [URL=“[Canine reproduction - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_reproduction)”]link]([http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=monkey](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=monkey)) > [@](#): > > 2- I have seen videos of large dogs fucking women “doggy style” (there’s this thing called the “internet”; I’ll tell you about it another day) Dogs do that humping action on legs or whatever else; perhaps they weren’t actually having sex? Actually, this isn’t a road I’d really like to explore. As for this thing called the internet, I won’t even dignify that with a rolleyes. * * * In fact, I was going to respond to all 5 points but we’re going far enough off-topic as it is. My current opinion is simple: the concept of animal rape at the moment seems a legend based on hearsay. I don’t want to search for “Venda Sexy”. If you find a compelling link, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/47 "2009-02-04T01:26:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Maybe he meant humans don’t naturally do it doggie style? Any time I’ve done it doggie style it’s fallen out at least once before going in all the way. And sometimes I get freaked out it’ll go in the wrong hole…how are these dogs just managing to get it into the right hole just like that? With a lack of opposable thumbs no less, and a person struggling? Ohh… and I thought that Chinese girl I dated was using “wong ho” as an endearment. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/48 "2009-02-04T03:50:46Z")
I do remember reading a novel set in roman era once (was it I, Claudius?) that mentioned in passing women being raped by “specially trained jaguars” as a public spectacle. The women in question were either the wives/daughters of traitors to the throne, or were involved in a conspiracy themselves, or were the wives/daughters of an opposing country, or some such. Heh. This is so vague that it is much like no cite whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/49 "2009-02-04T06:29:19Z")
This sounds like the setup to a very old joke. The punchline being, “All right now, Kong, I’m only going to show you this ONE more time!” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/50 "2009-02-04T07:54:55Z")
Oh man, why did I read this thread? I had finally managed to stop thinking about that horrible video I was stupid enough to watch of the guy and his stallion (the guy died a few hours later, in case you are unfamiliar with the case). But as long as I’m here, the Romans and most ancient cultures were pretty messed up and there doesn’t seem to be much they weren’t willing to give a go to, just for the entertainment value. As for “unwilling”, that’s easy enough…restrain a woman just so and it’s a piece of cake for just about anyone to do just about anything, pencil dick or no. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/51 "2009-02-04T09:23:00Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Dogs do that humping action on legs or whatever else; perhaps they weren’t actually having sex? Actually, this isn’t a road I’d really like to explore. > … > My current opinion is simple: the concept of animal rape at the moment seems a legend based on hearsay. I don’t want to search for “Venda Sexy”. If you find a compelling link, let me know. There is overwhelming evidence out there proving it happened but you choose to ignore it? Oh, well. There are plenty of perpetrators and victims alive and there are many groups who want to see the perpetrators brought to justice. There are documentaries where the victims are interviewed. In [this PDF document in Spanish](http://www.archivochile.com/Derechos_humanos/testimo/hhddtestimo0006.pdf) a woman by the name Luz Nieves Ayress tells how she was tortured. She has been public and outspoken over the years in retelling the horrors to which she was subjected. She has appeared on camera. Among the unspeakable brutalities which left scars all over her body she tells that she was tortured in front of her family as was her family in front of her and they used a trained dog to rape her and they also introduced rats in her vagina. They raped her in front of her family and they tried to have her male relatives to have sex with her. The names of the victims and perpetrators are out there for everybody to know. Many of the perpetrators retired to private lives but others became prominent politicians. There is no question that these things happened. (BTW, “Venda Sexy” was the name of a closed-down discotheque which the secret police used as prison and torture place. It was one of the best known torture locations together with “Villa Grimaldi”. Many people suffered torture at these two locations.) The evidence is overwhelming in that it happened and I would consider denying the attrocities committed in Chile and Argentina during the dictatorships akin to denying the holocaust. The evidence is just overwhelming. This proves that many humans who are in a position to inflict pain and torture will do so willingly and enjoy it and they will almost always use sex and they will use animals if they get the chance. Sex in torture is the utmost humiliation as Abu Ghraib showed once more and using animals takes it one step further. Just saying “I refuse to believe humans could be so depraved and I refuse to see the evidence which proves otherwise” is not a very solid position. The Romans accepted publicly what today we would not but human nature has not changed. Whether the Roman trained apes or not I cannot say as I have no direct evidence but the evidence regarding human nature shows that if it could be done they would have probably have done it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/52 "2009-02-04T10:51:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The “apes aren’t monkeys” meme is wrongheaded. > … > any definition of “monkey” that includes both baboons and howler monkeys has to also include chimps and humans or it doesn’t make any sense, because a baboon is more closely related to a human than it is to any new world monkey. The only problem with this, is that that is not how words work. You can categorise on any basis you want. Consider my earlier analogy: the sun has more in common with Jupiter than Mercury does, but that doesn’t mean we suddenly have to consider the sun to be a planet. Similarly, if a country in Asia has a culture and climate more typical of a European country, does that suddenly mean we can’t use those terms any more, or that they should both now mean Eurasia? Most dictionary definitions explicitly excludes apes from the term monkeys. And the one counter-example shown thus far implied it was giving the casual, informal definition of the term. > [@sailor](#): > > There is overwhelming evidence out there proving it happened but you choose to ignore it? I haven’t seen such evidence. And the best you could apparently find is a single victim’s statement, in Spanish. I don’t speak Spanish, but I’ll accept that the pdf describes what you’ve summarised. Nonetheless, one statement is not yet “overwhelming”. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/53 "2009-02-04T11:22:18Z")
Sailor, there is a reason why hearsay statements are not allowed in court or that statements usually need corroberation, especially those made by the complainant. Evidence can condemn a person, not allegations. Remember the bit about Iraqi soldiers and incubators? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/54 "2009-02-04T12:10:26Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I haven’t seen such evidence. > And the best you could apparently find is a single victim’s statement, in Spanish. > I don’t speak Spanish, but I’ll accept that the pdf describes what you’ve summarised. Nonetheless, one statement is not yet “overwhelming”. I guess you missed my post: > [@sailor](#): > > During Pinochet’s rule in Chile it was reported they used dogs trained to rape women. If you can train dogs to do it I’m sure you can train apes. > > > [@](#): > > > > [Project MUSE](http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/radical_history_review/v079/79.1meade.html) > > > > One of the guards was a female carabinero (policeman) named Ingrid Olderock who was a dog trainer for the police. She used her particular talents to train a German shepherd dog to rape women. The police called the dog “Bellodilla,” which was the name of the head of the Chilean Communist Party. Olderock is alive and lives in Nunoa (a section of Santiago), where she is retired on a comfortable pension. > > That was the regime the U.S.A supported in their coup against democratically-elected president Salvador Allende. I also cited > [@](#): > > [http://www.chipsites.com/derechos/1981\_eng.html](http://www.chipsites.com/derechos/1981_eng.html) > JULY 15, 1981 > Captain Ingrid Olderock survives a murder attempt by the “Popular Resistance Militia,” which accuses her of training dogs used in torture. She is mentioned in _[The Condor Years: How Pinochet and His Allies Brought Terrorism to Three Continents](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/1565849779/)_ by John Dinges (New York: The New Press, 2004) But you say you do not want to read or search and anything not in Engish you dismiss beforehand. Any human rights organization can tell you what went on in South America during that time. > [@](#): > > [Operation Condor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor) > > Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor), was a campaign of political repressions involving assassination and intelligence operations officially implemented in 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America. The program aimed to eradicate left-wing and socialist influence and ideas and to control active or potential opposition movements against the usually conservative governments. Due to its clandestine nature, the precise number of deaths directly attributable to Operation Condor will likely never be known, but it is reported to have caused thousands of victims, possibly even more. > > Condor’s key members were the right-wing military dictatorships in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil, with Ecuador and Peru joining later in more peripheral roles.[4] These nations were ruled by dictators such as Jorge Rafael Videla, Augusto Pinochet, Ernesto Geisel, Hugo Banzer, and Alfredo Stroessner. The operation was jointly conducted by the intelligence and security services of these nations during the mid-1970s with support provided by the United States of America through the CIA. Read the list of footnotes, references and bibliography on that page. There is no question whatsoever that these things happened. None. They have been widely reported and only a person who is willfully ignorant could deny it. Survivors of torture gathered in 1998 > [@](#): > > [http://www.elmundo.es/1998/03/20/ultima/20N0111.html](http://www.elmundo.es/1998/03/20/ultima/20N0111.html) > > «Había una carcelera, Ingrid Olderock, que entrenaba a perros para violar a las mujeres. Su preferido era un doberman llamado Volodia», There was a guard, Ingrid Olderock, who trained dogs to rape women. Her favorite was a dobberman named Volodia. \<\\> Here is her photo and list of deeds: [http://www.memoriaviva.com/culpables/criminales%20o/olderock\_ingrid.htm](http://www.memoriaviva.com/culpables/criminales%20o/olderock_ingrid.htm) More and more information is coming out gradually and it all confirms the horrors: [Chile and the United States: Declassified Documents relating to the Military Coup, 1970-1976](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8.htm) The place, the perpetrators, the units they belonged to, the victims are all named and it all fits into the whole picture of what was going on in Chile at the time. The repression and torture that took place are well known to any educated person. It was huge. It spanned several countries and was a very concerted effort coordinated by the CIA. How anyone can deny this is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/55 "2009-02-04T12:24:32Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Sailor, there is a reason why hearsay statements are not allowed in court or that statements usually need corroberation, especially those made by the complainant. > > Evidence can condemn a person, not allegations. Remember the bit about Iraqi soldiers and incubators? What freaking hearsay? How many Americans witnessed the holocaust or the collapse of the WTC with their own eyes? The events in South America have been widely reported in the news, there are victims seeking justice, there have been lawsuits, it is still contentious in those countries, there were thousands who disappeared and their relatives are still asking for justice, babies were stolen and either tortured and killed or given to other families, there were many thousands of refugees from those regimes who came to Europe, I have seen victims interviewed and describe the torture, the CIA papers prove it happened. If you are claiming all this is a conspiracy and a setup you need to provide some very substantial proof of that. I just cannot believe that a board which would go nuts against a holocaust denier would let this kind of lie live for one single second. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/56 "2009-02-04T12:40:10Z")
**sailor** , The point of contention is whether animals can/have raped human females (actually the OP was about apes specifically, but nevermind). So all these links about torture in Chile…are completely besides the point. No one is denying, or accepting, or even cares for the purposes of this thread about whether atrosities happened under Pinochet’s rule. So far, I’ve only seen one line in one of the links you’ve posted that mentions animal rape (if there are others, please point them out; I don’t want to read through all these articles), and it’s just a matter-of-fact “…who trained dogs to rape women”. The kind of phrasing that makes me suspect it’s based on hearsay rather than any direct accounts. It contains a link for further information, but the link is broken. So, yes, I still say: no compelling evidence. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/57 "2009-02-04T13:06:16Z")
I guess there is no one so blind as those who do not want to see. I think the evidence is clear. I have provided first hand accounts of a victim (Ayress), I have personally seen her on video relating the same things, I have provided statements from other torture victims who say it happened, I have provided the name of a torturer who did it with plenty of details about her. If this is not enough then I can safely deny the holocaust ever happened because all I have seen is “hearsay”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/58 "2009-02-04T13:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E0DB1038F930A35751C0A96F958260](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E0DB1038F930A35751C0A96F958260) - February 3, 1999 > > LUZ DE LAS NIEVES AYRESS was first arrested by the police of the Chilean Government as a 25-year-old graduate student, in the fall of 1973, shortly after Gen. Augusto Pinochet seized power. > > The first time they arrested her, Ms. Ayress says, they tortured her with electrical currents, stripping her naked and applying electrodes to her mouth and ears and breasts and vagina and anus. That was ‘‘the easy part,’’ Ms. Ayress says. Electroshock they did to everyone. > > The next time Ms. Ayress was arrested, she says, she was raped repeatedly, forced to watch the torture of her father and 15-year-old brother, and slashed on the stomach and breasts. She spent four years in prison, three months of which she was in solitary confinement. **She was sexually assaulted by dogs.** It is also mentioned in page 30 of _Taking Back the Streets_ By Temma Kaplan which can be found in Google books. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/59 "2009-02-04T13:31:06Z")
…and things that may have happened under the Pinochet regime, which you troubled to specify was installed by the US, have what to do with the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071/60 "2009-02-04T13:32:19Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I guess there is no one so blind as those who do not want to see. I think the evidence is clear. I have provided first hand accounts of a victim (Ayress), I have personally seen her on video relating the same things, I have provided statements from other torture victims who say it happened, I have provided the name of a torturer who did it with plenty of details about her. If this is not enough then I can safely deny the holocaust ever happened because all I have seen is “hearsay”. Sailor, one can [doubt that the Nazis really made lampshades out of human skin](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2511/did-the-nazis-make-lampshades-out-of-human-skin) without necessarily being a Holocaust denier. In fact, if I were to hysterically fling Holocaust denial accusations at anyone who doubted any facet of stories surrounding a necessarily chaotic and ill-document period of history, I’d be distracting attention from the Nazis inarguable crimes and giving ammunition to those who really _are_ Holocaust deniers. IOW, chill, dude, and if you must, you can start your own thread about this particular hobby horse of yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-romans-really-train-apes-to-rape-women/484071.md?page=4)