# Did the U.S. lose the War of 1812? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481 "2011-07-27T13:35:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/1 "2011-07-27T13:35:54Z")
Continuing the discussion from here: [Graduating from Hogwarts - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=617563) Have at it! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/2 "2011-07-27T13:39:25Z")
We achieved some, but not all, of our war aims; ending the impressment of American sailors and establishing strong control of our territorial waters, but failing to annex Canadian territory or prevent highly damaging incursions into our own. In the long run, beginning to establish ourselves as a naval power probably mattered more than scoring Canadian territory would have. No one came off terribly well in that war; we did okay. You can call that a win or a loss with almost equal validity. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/3 "2011-07-27T14:55:33Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > We achieved some, but not all, of our war aims; ending the impressment of American sailors … No, they didn’t “achieve” that. Impressment ended in 1814 when Napoleon was defeated. It had nothing to do with the war of 1812. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/4 "2011-07-27T14:58:10Z")
[Gfactor’s staff report](http://web.archive.org/web/20080126223552/http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mwar1812.htm). Summary: America lost. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/5 "2011-07-27T15:09:07Z")
It’s too early to say for sure. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/6 "2011-07-27T15:13:16Z")
Achiveing none of your pre war aims. Getting the capital burnt. Losing swarths of territory. Being chased off the High Seas. Yeah counts as a defeat amd a few tactical triumps do not change said fact. [QUOTE=Mr Excellent] In the long run, beginning to establish ourselves as a naval power probably mattered more than scoring Canadian territory would have. [/QUOTE] The US was in no way a naval power for most of the nineteenth century. It could barely defend its own ports. The US became a Naval power from the 1890’s onwards. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/7 "2011-07-27T16:47:18Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, they didn’t “achieve” that. Impressment ended in 1814 when Napoleon was defeated. It had nothing to do with the war of 1812. Well, it had nothing to do with with the War of 1812 the Americans were embroiled in. There was a whole other War of 1812 going on in Europe with France and Russia and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/8 "2011-07-27T16:59:45Z")
I think we all remember this from _The American Pageant:_ Start of war: “On to Canada!” End of war: “Not an inch of territory lost or ceded!” It ain’t over **yet,** ya lousy Brit-loving Canucks, we’ll settle with you eventually . . . ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/9 "2011-07-27T17:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Achiveing none of your pre war aims. Getting the capital burnt. Losing swarths of territory. Being chased off the High Seas. Yeah counts as a defeat amd a few tactical triumps do not change said fact. We achieved all of the pre-war aims which were actually the reason for going to war. We didn’t lose any territory, and in fact gained some. We remained on the high seas, stronger than we were before. I’ll grant that the British burned Washington, but that falls into the category of “a few tactical” defeats that you dismiss, since we did, after all, manage to retake the city. We really would have liked to have conquered Canada, of course, and we didn’t succeed at that, but again, _that wasn’t the primary reason for the war_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/10 "2011-07-27T17:40:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We achieved all of the pre-war aims which were actually the reason for going to war. Remind us, what were those aims, and how were they achieved, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/11 "2011-07-27T17:45:35Z")
As far as I can tell, our reason for wanting a war was for the sake of having a war. So since we did have a war, in that sense we “succeeded”. Even though we accomplished little or nothing that couldn’t have been accomplished _without_ a war. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/12 "2011-07-27T18:12:29Z")
It’s never crossed my mind that Brits would think they won that war. What did they win exactly? They managed not to lose Canada? I’ve always considered it pretty much a draw. Unless you were an Indian, then you got screwed. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/13 "2011-07-27T18:23:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Gfactor’s staff report](http://web.archive.org/web/20080126223552/http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mwar1812.htm). > > Summary: America lost. That’s pretty thorough. Bit of a side show at the time of course, what with Boney threatening invasion, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/14 "2011-07-27T18:25:12Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s never crossed my mind that Brits would think they won that war. What did they win exactly? They managed not to lose Canada? When the other side starts a fight and you lose nothing, that’s a win. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/15 "2011-07-27T18:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s never crossed my mind that Brits would think they won that war. What did they win exactly? They managed not to lose Canada? > > I’ve always considered it pretty much a draw. Unless you were an Indian, then you got screwed. Out of interest, what do you think of the \*\*FIRST \*\*gulf war? That is, Saddam’s attempt to invade Kuwait. It failed. He was unable to conquer the country. He was kicked out. But, he didn’t in fact actually lose any of his own territory. He wasn’t ousted from power. He wasn’t arrested and executed. (Not in the FIRST war, anyway) So, that’s a draw, then? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/16 "2011-07-27T18:26:38Z")
Kind of like Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/17 "2011-07-27T18:32:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s never crossed my mind that Brits would think they won that war. What did they win exactly? They managed not to lose Canada? That is precisely the point for the Canadian colonists and Britain claiming victory - they managed not to lose Canada. That was their only real and long lasting war aim. The aggressive nation was repelled and no land was lost. Conversely, the American’s lost. They attacked a country but were repelled. For similar reasons you can say Vietnam was a loss. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/18 "2011-07-27T18:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Gfactor’s staff report. Summary: America lost. [/QUOTE] > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > That’s pretty thorough. Bit of a side show at the time of course, what with Boney threatening invasion, etc. Of course, Americans prefer to think of the War of 1812 as a slight win–or at least a tie–on the strength of their victory at [the Battle of New Orleans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_New_Orleans). However, the battle did take place two weeks after the war formally ended at the Treaty of Ghent. The combatants in North America did not know about the treaty until at least six weeks after it had been signed. Thus, one can say the American victory at the battle was the historical equivalent of a late hit. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/19 "2011-07-27T18:42:37Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Conversely, the American’s lost. Is that why we were forced to accept an unnecessary apostrophe in our nationality? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481/20 "2011-07-27T18:51:22Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Is that why we were forced to accept an unnecessary apostrophe in our nationality? Among other things. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-u-s-lose-the-war-of-1812/590481.md?page=2)