# Did the US secret police fail in its duty of maintaining regime stability during the 2016 election? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548 "2018-05-21T10:31:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/221 "2018-05-23T17:13:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Or it is a fatuous question. But way to keep piling up the false dilemmas – first who do you prefer to torture, then either which do you prefer or ambivalence – and I think if you tried really hard, you could come up with another. > > How do you suppose this goes? If I get pulled over from a cop, do you think there is a special “agent of the state” hand sign that I give him that immunizes me from abuse? Are you kidding? You think agents of the state suffer from state violence anywhere near the rate of productive members of society? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/222 "2018-05-23T17:16:01Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > … > > Do you consider the violent capture of non-harmful individuals and their subsequent imprisonment to be a form of torture? If so, why do you favor a system with outcomes such as these? You mean non-harmful as in a drunk driver who hasn’t killed anyone yet? I’m pretty much okay with locking them up. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/223 "2018-05-23T17:17:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So basically what you’re telling us here is that you’re incapable of understanding the actual issues being considered by the Mueller enquiry and thus have resorted to creating in your own mind this weird cartoonish version of what the concerns over Russian involvement in the US election and current administration are, and are then attributing it to me - despite it bearing absolutely no relation to anything I’ve ever said - in order to make yourself feel better about your own rather dubious worldview. > > This is why we worry about you. Ah yes, I’m sure Mueller will reveal some earth-shattering collusion, that helped Trump a great deal according to you, and not simply hit Trump and/or associates with money-laundering charges or something similar that is irrelevant to Russian collusion. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/224 "2018-05-23T17:18:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Are you kidding? You think agents of the state suffer from state violence anywhere near the rate of productive members of society? You aren’t exactly explaining how I exercise my privilege. Do cops just know instinctually that I’m a statist? Does it show up on my driving record? Am I supposed to let them know somehow that I’m a fellow oppressor of liberty? Seriously, tell me how this works. Nobody let me in on a big perk of my profession, and I want to make sure I’m doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/225 "2018-05-23T17:19:13Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You mean non-harmful as in a drunk driver who hasn’t killed anyone yet? I’m pretty much okay with locking them up. Yes, there’s probably a whole lot you are okay with. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/226 "2018-05-23T17:23:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You aren’t exactly explaining how I exercise my privilege. Do cops just know instinctually that I’m a statist? Does it show up on my driving record? Am I supposed to let them know somehow that I’m a fellow oppressor of liberty? > > Seriously, tell me how this works. Nobody let me in on a big perk of my profession, and I want to make sure I’m doing it right. You get a paycheck that comes from productive members of society. Is that privilege enough for you? Statistically, you are safe from the law. The mechanism is unknown to a commoner like myself. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/227 "2018-05-23T17:24:34Z")
Oh dear, you’re serious about all this, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/228 "2018-05-23T17:27:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes, there’s probably a whole lot you are okay with. I’d be okay with a non-harmful person stealing your only keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/229 "2018-05-23T17:28:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Statistically, you are safe from the law. The mechanism is unknown to a commoner like myself. But you believe that there is some formalized system which protects me from the police doing unjustified things to me, on the basis of my job. I mean a formalized system like a rulebook, code of conduct, or something similar, to which I and the police are all on the same page, procedure-wise. Is that a fair summation of your views? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/230 "2018-05-23T18:12:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But you believe that there is some formalized system which protects me from the police doing unjustified things to me, on the basis of my job. I mean a formalized system like a rulebook, code of conduct, or something similar, to which I and the police are all on the same page, procedure-wise. > > Is that a fair summation of your views? I haven’t said anything to that effect. I said you are statistically less likely to be a victim. I would have to know specifically your role with the state. It is possible you have some formal exemptions from state violence under the law. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/231 "2018-05-23T18:21:56Z")
To be clear, your extorted paycheck is not enough privilege. You also spend much of the workday spreading pro-government rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/232 "2018-05-23T18:29:05Z")
Technically, it is only innocent people who get locked up in this country, at least initially, as suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty. If there is a better way, we might as well hear it. I am not going to say the system is perfect- the war on drugs often looks a lot like a war on minorities, for example. Even then, people aren’t just being locked up willy nilly. And it isn’t torture by any normal definition. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/233 "2018-05-23T18:32:49Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Technically, it is only innocent people who get locked up in this country, at least initially, as suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty. If there is a better way, we might as well hear it. > > I am not going to say the system is perfect- the war on drugs often looks a lot like a war on minorities, for example. Even then, people aren’t just being locked up willy nilly. And it isn’t torture by any normal definition. You haven’t experienced being locked up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/234 "2018-05-23T18:35:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes, there’s probably a whole lot you are okay with. Are you okay with the police arresting drunk drivers? If not, why? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/235 "2018-05-23T18:38:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are you okay with the police arresting drunk drivers? If not, why? Removing them from the roadways is understandable. Preventing them from using the roadways is also understandable. Putting them in prison, no. The state “owns” the roadways. Until this changes, there is no reason they shouldn’t be able to do what a private road owner would be permitted to do. A private road system would have better ways of dealing with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/236 "2018-05-23T18:58:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Preventing them from using the roadways is also understandable. Putting them in prison, no. How do you propose preventing them using the roadways, then? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/237 "2018-05-23T19:01:27Z")
What would a private road system look like? And what are the ‘better ways’ they’d deal with drunk drivers, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/238 "2018-05-23T19:03:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > What about my statement about being against the torture of guilty people failed to dispel your confusion? The non-sequitur nature of it. There’s two different questions: 1. Is it okay to torture the guilty? 2. Is it possible, definitionally, to torture the guilty? Your question about confining non-harmful people, and whether it’s torture, looked like you were confused about #2. Your statement about not liking to torture guilty people answered #1. But these two are not the same question. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/239 "2018-05-23T19:15:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I haven’t said anything to that effect. I said you are statistically less likely to be a victim. This is why I posed it as a question. So you agree that there’s no system whereby government employees are exempted from poor treatment by police; it’s just that government employees are not often abused by police, and that’s… a problem? > [@](#): > > I would have to know specifically your role with the state. It is possible you have some formal exemptions from state violence under the law. This is where I’d be crazy to get any more specific about my job in a conversation with you. I really do think you’re the kind of person who would seek to harass your statist enemies in real life. But suffice it to say, I have never even come close to committing any act of physical violence in the course of my work, nor have I ever been in a position where directing someone to do so would be in any way legitimate. It is absurd to suggest otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548/240 "2018-05-23T19:16:33Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You haven’t experienced being locked up. What have you been locked up for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-us-secret-police-fail-in-its-duty-of-maintaining-regime-stability-during-the-2016-election/814548.md?page=13)