# Did The USA plan To Use Atomic Bombs On Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734 "2003-12-23T22:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/41 "2012-09-17T07:35:01Z")
> [@tazjet](#): > > Actually the Japanese were not impressed by the bombing of Hiroshima. Prof Nishina reported to the Japanese War Cabinet that USA could not have many bombs and accordingly the Japanese did not surrender because of use by USA of nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > > It was the sudden invasion of Manchuria, Korea and the Kurils which finally persuaded the Japanese to surrender, not Allied A-bombs. Utter tripe and nonsense. The cabinet was split 3-3 on continuing the war after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with the military wanting to continue the war and the civilian members wanted to quit the war. Emperor Hirohito broke the deadlock by coming out in favor of surrender. Korea and the Kuril Islands weren’t even occupied until after Hirohito announced Japan’s surrender and acceptance of the terms of the Potsdam declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/42 "2012-09-17T15:28:48Z")
> [@tazjet](#): > > A previously classified US Navy intelligence report entitled, “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb” dated 19 August 1945, had attached to it the affidavit of a German pilot Hans Zinsser. He said he was sent aloft in October 1944 to observe a nuclear weapon test blast and watched a boiling mushroom cloud rise to 22,000 feet with plasma ion discharges inside the cloud. An Italian war correspondent Luigi Romersa sent by Mussolini to observe the test reported witnessing the blast from a sealed bunker on 12 October 1944. Romersa was still alive in 2005 when the story broke in modern times and was re-interviewed in 2005. I suspect you can find Romersa’s interview on Youtube in Italian. Well, Zinsser might have said anything, because people lie. But it’s definitively true that there was **no** Nazi atomic detonation. This is measurable today – scientists would be able to detect the radiation products of such a blast even now, and they have been looking like hell for traces of unknown blasts for the last 60 years. So we can conclusively rule out an Axis detonation. Germany did not achieve even a working controlled reactor. The fact that it’s so clearly and easily ruled out throws into doubt the believability and even the motive of anyone who would post such a thing. > [@tazjet](#): > > Actually the Japanese were not impressed by the bombing of Hiroshima. The hell they weren’t. The fact that they did not _instantly_ give up dies not mean they didn’t take the weapon very seriously. Furthermore, the idea that they would be willing to endure a slow death as the US produced bombs and dropped them is ludicrous. > [@tazjet](#): > > You only need about 150 grams of Uranium or Plutonium if you use the Nazi method developed between 1942 and 1943 by Schumann and Trinks. They applied a plasma pinch external to the Uranium with explosive hollow charges causing a small thermonuclear detonation between Lithium-6 and Deuteride to spark a fissile explosion in Uranium. > > Also youdo not need a huge enrichment plant or a nuclear reactor either… just type of particle accelerator called a synchrotron to transmute Thorium 232 or Uranium 238. > > Several of these synchrotrons were discovered by ALSOS in Germany/Austria in 1945. This is a misreading of the facts. I just finished Richard Rhodes’ book _Dark Sun_, on the making of the hydrogen bomb (the writing of which necessarily entailed a lot of info about the making of the atomic [fission] bomb, of course, as the technologies are intertwined). He mentions the Schumann/Trinks plasma pinch idea, which was very forward-thinking, but entirely hypothetical and not developed by the Nazis. It’s _extremely_ misleading to refer to a Schumann Trinks atomic weapon, as you do [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15489264&postcount=13). Germany was far from having any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/43 "2012-09-17T17:53:17Z")
The idea that the Japanese were more afraid of the Russian navy - which at the time consisted of two rowboats and a surfboard - than of the largest naval armada ever assembled in history, which was currently bearing down on their homeland, is patently absurd. Yes, the Russians had the largest \*land \*forces in the world; but they didn’t have a fraction of the U.S.'s ships and long-range bombers, which would actually be useful in an invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/44 "2012-09-17T18:20:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The idea that the Japanese were more afraid of the Russian navy - which at the time consisted of two rowboats and a surfboard - than of the largest naval armada ever assembled in history, which was currently bearing down on their homeland, is patently absurd. Yes, the Russians had the largest \*land \*forces in the world; but they didn’t have a fraction of the U.S.'s ships and long-range bombers, which would actually be useful in an invasion. To be fair, if someone said they feared the Soviet navy, I missed that. The implication, as far as I understand it, is that they feared the Soviet ground forces hitting them on the continent. Despite the furious island warfare that had preceded this point, far and away the largest and best Japanese ground forces were stationed in China and Manchuria. When these were hit by Soviet forces and crumpled, that meant that they would not be available to shift to Japan to defend against the Americans (or anyone else for that matter). The Soviets didn’t need to get their feet wet to inflict immense military damage on Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/45 "2012-09-17T18:26:06Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > To be fair, if someone said they feared the Soviet navy, I missed that. The implication, as far as I understand it, is that they feared the Soviet ground forces hitting them on the continent. Despite the furious island warfare that had preceded this point, far and away the largest and best Japanese ground forces were stationed in China and Manchuria. When these were hit by Soviet forces and crumpled, that meant that they would not be available to shift to Japan to defend against the Americans (or anyone else for that matter). The Soviets didn’t need to get their feet wet to inflict immense military damage on Japan. But the fact is, they were unavailable since as of early 1945, if not earlier, because the Japanese effectively had no fleet to bring them home with. As far as the defense of Japan was concerned, these forces did not exist. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/46 "2012-09-17T20:27:25Z")
> [@tazjet](#): > > YAlso youdo not need a huge enrichment plant or a nuclear reactor either… just type of particle accelerator called a synchrotron to transmute Thorium 232 or Uranium 238. Except this would be horribly inefficient. There was some brief work done using cyclotrons to transmute fissionable material by Ernest Lawrence & Co. in Berkeley, CA, but it was dropped quickly as more promising methods offered much higher returns for the materials and energy expended (a critical factor in a war of mass production vs. attrition). While the Americans (followed by the Soviets, a few years) committed the state to building nuclear weapons on an industrial scale, the Nazi’s never moved beyond the laboratory stage. This little ditty [succinctly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Alsos#Legacy) summarizes how badly the Nazi’s wanted to build the bomb: > [@](#): > > After seeing the German project at Haigerloch, Goudsmit wrote that: > > _It was so obvious the whole German uranium set up was on a ludicrously small scale. Here was the central group of laboratories, and all it amounted to was a little underground cave, a wing of a small textile factory, a few rooms in an old brewery. To be sure, the laboratories were well-equipped, but compared to what we were doing in the United States it was still small-time stuff. Sometimes we wondered if our government had not spent more money on our intelligence mission than the Germans had spent on their whole project._ Conclusion: Der Nazi’s gott Nazi zwei show vor der efforts zwei buildt zee Atomik Boob. ---
**Author:** ![XRaeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f14d63/32.png) [@XRaeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XRaeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/47 "2012-09-18T09:05:38Z")
> [@Crusoe](#): > > [**The Guardian** : How to make a dirty bomb](http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,769645,00.html) > > (no, it’s not actual instructions) I’m aware this post was made 9 years ago, but I still somehow feel that clicking this link will put me on some scary 3 letter organization’s watch list. ---
**Author:** ![tazjet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@tazjet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tazjet)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/48 "2012-09-19T02:46:18Z")
The best guide to nuclear weapons is Carey Sublette’s excellent FAQ section to this website: [http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/) Most people cant get their head around the difference between natural critical mass (the mass of fissile material at which neutron multiplication spontaneously becomes critical) and criticality. For example with Uranium at 20% U235 enrichment requires 400kg to become critical 80% U235 enrichment requires 64 kg to become critical 93.5% U235 enrichment requires 47.5kg to become critical 93.5% U235 enriched requires 18.4kg with 10 cm thick tamper 93.5% U235 enriched requires 14.1kg with 10cm Beryllium shell 100% U235 enriched requires 1.2 kg Therefore critical mass is not a static figure You can induce criticality in a smaller mass with an external Plasma Pinch to raise the neutron flux at a given point to levels equivalent to or in excess of a critical mass to cause an explosion. Critical mass is not a fixed amount. It is a variable value depending upon various factors such as: - Isotope Purity - Compression - Warhead temperature - Neutron flux levels (ie reflector) In terms of criticality quite small amounts can be exploded with sufficient neutron flux ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/49 "2012-09-19T14:01:24Z")
So many misconceptions, and I don’t have enough time tonight. > [@tazjet](#): > > Actually the Japanese were not impressed by the bombing of Hiroshima. Prof Nishina reported to the Japanese War Cabinet that USA could not have many bombs and accordingly the Japanese did not surrender because of use by USA of nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nope. The Japanese didn’t surrender because many of the army leaders were completely fucking nuts and intended on never surrendering. NHK, the national broadcast corporation, aired a special in which one of the intelligent officers was told several months prior to Hiroshima that they were no longer looking for evidence of the US nuclear bombs as “they” had decided that atomic bombs weren’t feasible. He speculated that as Japan wasn’t able to produce one itself, army leaders decided that the US couldn’t. > [@](#): > > It was the sudden invasion of Manchuria, Korea and the Kurils which finally persuaded the Japanese to surrender, not Allied A-bombs. Actually this isn’t as far into left field as the rest of your posts. Historians still debate how much influence the various factors had, and as Hitohiro was involved and lots of material was destroyed, there isn’t a definitive answer, but certainly there is merit in the argument that the sudden entry of the USSR was a major blow. Unfortunately I don’t have enough time for this one today. > [@Dissonance](#): > > Utter tripe and nonsense. The cabinet was split 3-3 on continuing the war after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with the military wanting to continue the war and the civilian members wanted to quit the war. Emperor Hirohito broke the deadlock by coming out in favor of surrender. Korea and the Kuril Islands weren’t even occupied until after Hirohito announced Japan’s surrender and acceptance of the terms of the Potsdam declaration. Not bad for going on memory. It was their War Counsel, so all but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs were military. > [@Sailboat](#): > > The hell they weren’t. The fact that they did not _instantly_ give up dies not mean they didn’t take the weapon very seriously. Furthermore, the idea that they would be willing to endure a slow death as the US produced bombs and dropped them is ludicrous. At this stage of the game, they were already damn near dead of conventional firebombing. Surrender was forgone, it was a matter if they could live with the unconditional part. They had been holding out that the USSR could negotiate something less then completely unconditional terms and when Soviets entered, that was gone. The allowance for Hitohito to remain emperor without facing war crimes tipped the balance. > [@Sailboat](#): > > Despite the furious island warfare that had preceded this point, far and away the largest and best Japanese ground forces were stationed in China and Manchuria. When these were hit by Soviet forces and crumpled, that meant that they would not be available to shift to Japan to defend against the Americans (or anyone else for that matter). The Soviets didn’t need to get their feet wet to inflict immense military damage on Japan. No, what was left in China and Machuria were a shell of what they started with. The armor was gone and the troops were inexperienced. They did stand to lose all of the land, though (just showing how much in denial people can be) as well as all those men. Total wars are a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/50 "2012-09-19T16:48:57Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > a bit of a hijack… the allies perpetrated the equivalent of a nuclear attack on Germany with the firebombing of Dresden. Nope. You are perpetuating a distortion started by one Josef Goebbels. The chief Nazi propagandist simply added a zero to the approximate figure of deaths, called it a crime, and, well, evidently it still has traction. [About 20000 to 25000 is more like it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II#Casualties) for fatalities in the Dresden fire bombing. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/51 "2012-09-19T16:53:11Z")
And, [here is a non-Wiki cite](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2010/03/18/dresden-bombing-report.html) (the original source is in German and not readily available on-line in any case). Quote: Originally Posted by **akrako1** a bit of a hijack… the allies perpetrated the equivalent of a nuclear attack on Germany with the firebombing of Dresden. > [@KarlGauss](#): > > Nope. > > You are perpetuating a distortion started by one Josef Goebbels. The chief Nazi propagandist simply added a zero to the approximate figure of deaths, called it a crime, and, well, evidently it still has traction. > > [About 20000 to 25000 is more like it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II#Casualties) for fatalities in the Dresden fire bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/52 "2012-09-19T17:10:38Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The allowance for Hitohito to remain emperor without facing war crimes tipped the balance. I was under the impression that that was decided afterwards by MacArthur and the surrender was unconditional. Is that not the case? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/53 "2012-09-19T17:17:13Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I was under the impression that that was decided afterwards by MacArthur and the surrender was unconditional. Is that not the case? It doesn’t seem to be clear. [The wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito#Last_days_of_the_war) indicates surrender was first declined by the emperor because he believed he would be deposed, then accepted when it was pointed out that wasn’t a specific term of the demand. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > On June 22, the Emperor met with his ministers, saying “I desire that concrete plans to end the war, unhampered by existing policy, be speedily studied and that efforts be made to implement them.” The attempt to negotiate a peace via the Soviet Union came to nothing. There was always the threat that extremists would carry out a coup or foment other violence. On July 26, 1945, the Allies issued the Potsdam Declaration demanding unconditional surrender. The Japanese government council, the Big Six, considered that option and recommended to the Emperor that it be accepted only if one to four conditions were agreed, including a guarantee of the Emperor’s continued position in Japanese society. The Emperor decided not to surrender. > > On August 9, 1945, following the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet declaration of war, Emperor Hirohito told Kido to “quickly control the situation” because “the Soviet Union has declared war and today began hostilities against us.”[33] On August 10, the cabinet drafted an “Imperial Rescript ending the War” following the Emperor’s indications that the declaration did not compromise any demand which prejudiced the prerogatives of His Majesty as a Sovereign Ruler. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/54 "2012-09-19T17:18:28Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The allowance for Hitohito to remain emperor without facing war crimes tipped the balance. This was actually expressly rejected as an acceptable term of surrender prior to dropping the bombs. From Richard B. Franks [Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire](http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-The-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/0141001461#reader_0141001461) > [@](#): > > The most often repeated condemnation of American diplomacy in the summer of 1945 is that policy makers understood that a promise to retain the Imperial institution was essential to end the war, and that had the United states communicated such a promise, the Suzuki cabinet would likely have promptly surrendered. The answer to this assertion is enshrined in black and white in the July 22 edition of the Magic Diplomatic Summary. There, American policy makers could read for themselves that Ambassador Sato had advised Foreign Minister Togo that the best terms Japan could hope to secure were unconditional surrender, modified only to the extent that the Imperial institution could be retained. Presented by his own ambassador with this offer, Togo expressly rejected it. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/55 "2012-09-19T17:32:10Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I was under the impression that that was decided afterwards by MacArthur and the surrender was unconditional. Is that not the case? Yes and no. There were negotiations occurring prior to the surrender. There is no paper trail clearly showing the condition that Hirohito would not be tried as a war criminal, but as Japan had agreed to unconditional surrender as long as the Emperor remained as such, I think that it would a safe to say that the US and Japan had that, at the very minimum, as an unspoken agreement. Hirohito remaining as emperor is [part of history](http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-15-3-b-choices-truman-hirohito-and-the-atomic-bomb.html). > [@](#): > > So it was that on 10 August, at 3:00 a.m., the Cabinet and the Supreme Council complied and voted in reluctant unanimity to accept the Potsdam offer, but with the stipulation that the Emperor remain the sovereign ruler of the country. By 7:00 a.m., the Foreign Minister had dispatched an announcement of the decision to the United States and China through Japan’s Minister Shunichi Kase in Switzerland, and to Great Britain and the USSR through Minister Suemasa Okamoto in Sweden. Japanese officials tensely awaited the Allies’ response. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/56 "2012-09-19T17:47:05Z")
And the US rejected Japan’s demands, of course, but there are Japanese historians who argue that it was understood. The exact role of the Emperor in the war was immediately white washed and the records have never been made public. An argument is that the seemingly uncharacteristic forcefulness of Hirohito would have been based on something. ---
**Author:** ![tazjet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@tazjet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tazjet)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/57 "2012-09-20T02:24:20Z")
Since I never mentioned the Russian navy, I am being deliberately misquoted and then attacked for the contents of the misquotation. Japan’s resolve was not crushed by the American Atomic Bombs. Prof Nishina visited hiroshima which is how he came to die from cancer from radiation contracted there, but he reported to the cabinet that USA could not have many more nuclear weapons to expend against Japan. By 1945 Manchuria and Korea were virtually all the industrial and raw material reserves which Japan had left. Nitrates for explosives and tungsten carbide for shells etc all came from Konan (Hamhuang) in Korea. Mines in northern korea and Manchuria also provided coal and iron ore. The city of Mukden was industrialised to produce munitions and aircraft including engines. With these industrial resources in Korea and Manchuria being overrun by the Soviets the cupboard was bare so to speak. Japan was working in Korea on it’s own nuclear weapon right to the last minute, but with no viable delivery system. The laboratory of the 8th Imperial Army laboratory in Konan was the first to be captured by a massive soviet paratroop drop on 22 August 1945. With that gone the Japanese Atomic bomb project was dealt a death blow and japan knew this. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/58 "2012-09-20T03:34:58Z")
> [@tazjet](#): > > Since I never mentioned the Russian navy, I am being deliberately misquoted and then attacked for the contents of the misquotation. I see, so the Red Army swam to the Kuril Islands. Makes about as much sense as anything else you’ve said. > [@](#): > > With these industrial resources in Korea and Manchuria being overrun by the Soviets the cupboard was bare so to speak. The cupboard was already bare as getting any of the resources from these locations to say nothing of all the rest of the remaining conquests of the Imperial Japanese Empire to Japan was becoming near impossible and had been for some time as most of their merchant fleet was at the bottom of the ocean. There were nearly no tankers left to move oil from the captured oil fields back to Japan. Furthermore, you’ve ignored the fact that Korea and the Kuril Islands were not occupied until after Japan had capitulated. The loss of Korea and the Kuril Islands could hardly be a motivating factor in Japan’s decision to surrender if Japan had already decided to surrender when they were occupied. > [@](#): > > The laboratory of the 8th Imperial Army laboratory in Konan was the first to be captured by a massive soviet paratroop drop on 22 August 1945. With that gone the Japanese Atomic bomb project was dealt a death blow and japan knew this. Japan never had a meaningful nuclear program, just like Germany didn’t develop a nuclear weapon your unfounded beliefs aside. And again, Japan broadcast the Imperial Rescript on surrender on August 15th; barring a time warp the activities of August 22 could have no influence on Japan’s decision to surrender. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/59 "2012-09-20T03:52:27Z")
> [@tazjet](#): > > Since I never mentioned the Russian navy, I am being deliberately misquoted and then attacked for the contents of the misquotation. Which was pointed out to the poster in question. [quote] Japan’s resolve was not crushed by the American Atomic Bombs. Prof Nishina visited hiroshima which is how he came to die from cancer from radiation contracted there, but he reported to the cabinet that USA could not have many more nuclear weapons to expend against Japan. [/quoted] Cite please. Specifically, I’m especially interested in why the report would go to the cabinet. Also provide a cite showing it would be reasonable for anyone to believe him, even had this event occurred. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@JoeyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyG)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734/60 "2012-09-20T17:20:02Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > If I may, let me ask this: Did fallout patterns have anything to do with a decision, or were they not even considered at the time? > > Given that fallout over Japan would have passed over and into the Pacific, where fallout over Germany would have fallen over Europe. > > Did anyone forsee this? Was it a part of the decision? > > Tripler > I’m genuinely curious as well. . . If fallout would have gone east, due to prevailing winds, it would have crossed Poland and eventually found it’s way to Russia. Patton may have been OK with this but I doubt the US wanted to fight the millions of PO’ed Russians after they marched to Berlin and saw what the Nazis had done on the way. The Red Army didn’t know about Leningrad and Auschwitz until they got there, then they took it out on the women of Berlin for a month until the Allies arrived. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-usa-plan-to-use-atomic-bombs-on-germany/220734.md?page=4)